6BRA Alpha Brass question

[dgeesaman]

Well, I fire formed about (60rnds) of Alpha the other day with 30gr of Varget which was only 2825fps. About (40) of them had a fairly hard bolt lift. After talking with Tom at Alpha I was told the exact same thing. I can say that when measuring the .200 datum line on 1x fired Alpha, the pieces that had a heavy bold lift are .4675 to .468 and the others (easy bolt lift) are .469. I measured some pieces of Lapua from last season and they all measured .469
Alpha is claiming that the reamer used is too big and after firing 2 to 3 times the bodies will swell and all problems will disappear.
1) Alpha should label the brass stating it is only compatible with particular reamers so you don’t waste money buying it
2) If the only othe alternative is to fire the brass 2 to 3 times then why bother. Only have to fire Lapua once and it’s good to go no matter what reamer you have.
Just my $.02

Yeah I’ve been thinking about this but if that’s the case then does that mean Alpha brass is not tough or soft enough to be fire formed into a wildcat?

I mean if I can blow out 6BR brass to 6BRA, then surely I should be able to blow out slightly underside 6BRA into my chamber 6BRA. We’re only talking a couple thou. Factory chamber tolerances are way looser than our match grade reamers too.

I’m chasing an issue with some early Alpha 6BRA brass and tonight I’ll get out the mics and see how much difference there between virgin brass and fully formed.

 

[A.Thomas]

Yeah I’ve been thinking about this but if that’s the case then does that mean Alpha brass is not tough or soft enough to be fire formed into a wildcat?

I mean if I can blow out 6BR brass to 6BRA, then surely I should be able to blow out slightly underside 6BRA into my chamber 6BRA. We’re only talking a couple thou. Factory chamber tolerances are way loser than our match grade reamers too.

I’m chasing an issue with some early Alpha 6BRA brass and tonight I’ll get out the mics and see how much difference there between virgin brass and fully formed.

On the brass I have the .200 datum line on virgin Alpha and virgin Lapua 6br is the same. On the 1X fired Alpha that had a hard bolt lift that measurement only expanded about .0005 if at all. The pieces that did not have a hard bolt lift expanded .0025 to .003 and just so happen to match the measurement on the fired lapua cases I have.

I have already started down the rabbit hole with this so I'm going to see how they do on the 2nd firing (if the base expands to proper dimensions). I followed Alex Wheeler, Tom, Bart and some others when they were originally testing Alpha in a 6BRA so I should've known to stay away when they started having issues and went back to Lapua.

 

[savageshooter86]

So wheeler and them were involved in this and testing so why would they make the brass different from his reamer prints. Or maybe initially it wasn’t and now the new stuff is

 

[A.Thomas]

Yeah, makes no sense to me either. If you go back and read through their original testing they ran Alpha to the absolute edge and had zero issues. Why after great results things have been changed is beyond my comprehension.

 

[Ccrider]

Yeah, makes no sense to me either. If you go back and read through their original testing they ran Alpha to the absolute edge and had zero issues. Why after great results things have been changed is beyond my comprehension.

Not that complicated. Brass has changed.

 

[tillroot1]

just my ignorant question, but would annealing do anything to help or improve the brass prior to even loading it new out of the box?

 

[A.Thomas]

just my ignorant question, but would annealing do anything to help or improve the brass prior to even loading it new out of the box?

Not ignorant at all. I turned the necks then annealed with a AMP annealer so that shouldn’t be part of the problem. From what I’ve been told it is a issue with the hardness of the Alpha base preventing it from swelling enough on the first firing. Annealing won’t do anything for the base anyway.

 

[Ccrider]

just my ignorant question, but would annealing do anything to help or improve the brass prior to even loading it new out of the box?

No.

 

[tillroot1]

It just seems to me that there are a couple of opinions, they vary from the base to the shoulder and neck. I shoot this brass, and the first firing of my brass was heavy bolt lift and ejector swipe. I have a #1 chamber that is a .268 neck diameter, I turn to a .265 loaded round. I size full length to move the shoulder back .003. Still experience heavy bolt lift but no more ejector swipes.

 

[Ccrider]

I have shot it for 200+ rounds. I get heavy bolt lift but no ejector marks.

 

[mjl650]

I have 2 BRA's one with a .272 and the other has a .268 neck. I am on my 3rd firing on some of the Alpha brass for the no turn neck with no issues. During load development I went to 31.1 gr Varget with 108 Bergers before there was hard bolt lift.
I've been been using Lapua brass in the .268 neck and have 11 firings on some of the brass with no issues.
I'm presently doing load work up with Alpha brass for the .268 and am having the issues posted in this thread. Doing an initial pressure test with 205M primers, H4895, 105 Hybrids and necks turned to .0105". I started getting hard bolt lift at 28.3gr and ejector swipe shortly there after. I loaded up 5 more for a 2nd firing at 28.3gr and shot them yesterday, hard bolt lift and a trace of swipe. I'm going back to Lapua.
I checked the reamer prints for both rifles and they are the same other than dimensions related to the neck diameters.
A question for the masses.......now that I have 65pieces of brass with .0105" turned necks. Are there any issues with using them in the no turn neck BRA and having .007" to .008" neck/chamber clearance? I assume they wont last long before the necks start splitting.

 

[Ccrider]

A question for the masses.......now that I have 65pieces of brass with .0105" turned necks. Are there any issues with using them in the no turn neck BRA and having .007" to .008" neck/chamber clearance? I assume they wont last long before the necks start splitting.

Shoot them and see. You will be working the brass more, but my guess is that factory brass has about as much clearance.

 

[PA Jeep]

Has anyone chambered a 6BRA with the Alpha reamer? Did the combo prevent the clickers and allow for hotter loading?

 

[Mauser06]

Has anyone tried running Alpha through a small base die??



I have a heavier than normal bolt lift and ejector swipe like this thread is mostly about.....I'm only running 2905...

I have a test loaded to shoot tomorrow. 10 fire formed Lapua. 5 alpha and 5 alpha small base sized prior to normal sizing.

This action was new to me so I thought that's just how it felt. After reading this, I get 10 loaded rounds of factory Lapua 6 BR ammo and fired them in my rifle. Shot stupid well and blew out to match my fired Alpha cases. No ejector swipe and bolt lifted like an empty chamber.

Now I wanna see what happens after they are loaded and fired a few more times. As well as compare small base sized Alpha. And I'll have my normal Alpha to compare against. Same day...same load...all processed exactly the same.

 

[Ccrider]

I did. No go.

 

[A.Thomas]

Has anyone tried running Alpha through a small base die??



I have a heavier than normal bolt lift and ejector swipe like this thread is mostly about.....I'm only running 2905...

I have a test loaded to shoot tomorrow. 10 fire formed Lapua. 5 alpha and 5 alpha small base sized prior to normal sizing.

This action was new to me so I thought that's just how it felt. After reading this, I get 10 loaded rounds of factory Lapua 6 BR ammo and fired them in my rifle. Shot stupid well and blew out to match my fired Alpha cases. No ejector swipe and bolt lifted like an empty chamber.

Now I wanna see what happens after they are loaded and fired a few more times. As well as compare small base sized Alpha. And I'll have my normal Alpha to compare against. Same day...same load...all processed exactly the same.

Keep us posted on what you find. I have some Alpha loaded for a second firing but probably won’t be able to shoot until Wednesday

 

[Mauser06]

I did. No go.

Thats saddening...lol. it shoots well. But the heavy bolt lift disturbs the rifle more than it should.


I'll update my findings...should be able to get em fired tomorrow. The small base definitely did some work...just dont know if it worked what needed to be worked.

 

[Mauser06]

Keep us posted on what you find. I have some Alpha loaded for a second firing but probably won’t be able to shoot until Wednesday

So I shot my test.

10rds of Lapua 1x fired in my rifle.

5 Alpha fired in my rifle

5 Alpha ran through a small base die prior to sizing.


All other processes and load 100% the same.


Absolutely a much harder bolt lift...unfortunately with all the Alpha.


Interesting note....Alpha only ran 10-15fps faster than Lapua.


Was hoping I was wrong or small base would fix it. I have over 400 pieces of Alpha. Good shooting consistent stuff...just not what I need in my chamber.

 

[Ccrider]

Was hoping I was wrong or small base would fix it.

See post 77 above. I had the same results.

 

[shoot4fun]

Has anyone tried running Alpha through a small base die??



I have a heavier than normal bolt lift and ejector swipe like this thread is mostly about.....I'm only running 2905...

I have a test loaded to shoot tomorrow. 10 fire formed Lapua. 5 alpha and 5 alpha small base sized prior to normal sizing.

This action was new to me so I thought that's just how it felt. After reading this, I get 10 loaded rounds of factory Lapua 6 BR ammo and fired them in my rifle. Shot stupid well and blew out to match my fired Alpha cases. No ejector swipe and bolt lifted like an empty chamber.

Now I wanna see what happens after they are loaded and fired a few more times. As well as compare small base sized Alpha. And I'll have my normal Alpha to compare against. Same day...same load...all processed exactly the same.

I did. No go.

Could it be possible that we are sizing the brass too much?
Maybe we misread the ejector mark as pressure when it is a product of bolt thrust?
If the brass isn't able to expand rapidly and evenly it wouldn't grab the chamber walls, a necessity, quickly enough to keep pressure from launching the entire case back into the bolt.
I had not been having widespread issues with my Alpha 6BRA brass until this last load development session. The only thing different was I had used a Lee undersized 45ACP body die to get the 200 line area a little smaller. What I didn't notice until later was the die has just enough taper to actually size the BRA brass from about midway down the body.
Just conjecture or theory as you will (didn't stay in a Holiday Inn last night) but I am going to try a couple things different for a test.
FLAME RETARDANT UNDERWEAR ON
*******PS*******
I also use hydra-formed Lapua in one rifle and had some occasional hard bolt lift there as well.
Has anyone else notice this?