6BR Rem vs Norma dies?

[6.5grendel]

This might be a stupid question. I'm getting my 6BR project all together. Today I went to my local reloading store to get brass, bullets, and order a set of dies. On my way out I was curious and looked through the used item shelves. Found a set of Forster Bonanza Benchrest Dies in 6mm Rem Benchrest. Full length and seater dies. Only $50 so I got them. On my way home I started wondering if there are any differences in the dimensions of the Rem and Norma dies. I searched online and couldn't find a straight answer. Some people said they had a slightly different diameter at the web. I looked on Forster's site and they only list one 6mm BR die version. Am I okay using these 6mm Rem BR dies with Lapua 6mm Norma brass and 6mm Norma chamber? Thank you for any help.

 

[6.5grendel]

I've done a lot of reading, searching, and attempting to size some cases the last 15 hrs and have came to the conclusion that the 6mm Rem BR dies are not compatible with 6mm Norma BR brass. Sounds like there is about .004 difference at the web of the case. Some people say there isn't a difference but it sounds like they are just going off what they have heard or read. The ones that have experience with the two are the ones saying they aren't interchangeable and it can cause issues. I cleaned the dies and tried running a few new Lapua cases through the full length die. Lubed the first one with imperial wax and thought I was going to get a stuck case. Tried a couple more cases with Lee lube, alcohol-lanolin, and hornady one-shot. All sized extremely hard. Then tried seating a bullet using the benchrest seating die with sliding chamber. The cases wouldn't even slide up in the chamber without a lot of pressure. I'm going to take these dies back and order a set of new dies that hopefully work better. Hopefully this helps someone else and saves someone some confusion.

 

[expiper]

the dies you purchased used were the old original BR version,,,,and as you discovered they are much smaller in the body than the "Norma" Lapua version,,,get rid of those dies,,,I would recommend Redding type "S" full length bushing dies,,,use the appropriate bushing that works with your neck dia ,,if it is a no turn chamber I use a .265"-.266" WILSON bushing (the Redding bushings vary in their dia. and are NOT what they are stamped !!! usually,,,),,,,Roger

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Forster is about as up to date as lee is. I recommend the whidden dies in stock off the shelf. They work smooth as butter

 

[6.5grendel]

I messed with these dies a little more today. I assumed earlier that it was sizing the web of the case too much. I measured the web of a new case vs one I ran through the full length sizing die and they are exactly the same. This was measured with a caliper so they are the same to the closest half thousandth. Then I took the expander out of the sizing die to see how much they are sizing the neck down. It is sizing the neck OD down from .2675 to .2575 and then the expander is pulling them back out to .2675. I think from it sizing the neck down so much then back up so much that is why they feel so hard going through the die.

Then I tried sliding a new case and a sized case into the sleeve of the benchrest seating die and neither one would go in. Both were stopping at the same spot but they didn't feel tight side to side in the sleeve. So I took the case that I sized without the expander ball that was necked down to .2575, and it slid right in all the way. The neck of the properly sized brass is too big to go up into the neck of the sleeve. The only thing I can figure is the dies were made for thinner necked brass than Lapua. Did the original Remington 6mm Rem BR brass have thinner necks? I was going to contact Forster Monday and ask them about all of this and see if I could send them in and get the necks of both dies honed out to match my brass. If not I'll be returning these dies and going with something else. I have this same set of dies for a .260 Rem and I actually like them but they are a lot newer. I haven't tried Whidden dies yet, maybe this is the perfect opportunity.

 

[Murray Brook]

I also have the Forster die set for my 6 BR. I had Forster hone the neck out to .265. Works well, but I get my best #'s as far as run-out is concerned using a Redding body die to size the case body and bump the shoulder, then use a Lee collet die to size the neck. To seat the bullet I use the Forster benchrest seater die. I have also noticed that the case is sized more with the Forster die than the Redding, but the Redding sizes it enough to make things work good. No clickers and good case life. JME

 

[Dusty Stevens]

I haven't tried Whidden dies yet, maybe this is the perfect opportunity.

Youll want a bushing die anyway. Each box of brass plus tuning opportunities are bushing changes. The old br rem chambers no turn neck dia was .269 so yes they were thinner

 

[6.5grendel]

Dusty, that makes sense. These cases measure .2675 empty and .2685 loaded. That would be too tight for a .269 neck so the brass must have been thinner back then. Thank you for the advice. I'm going to see about ordering a set of Whidden dies. Would you recommend their seater dies also over other brand seaters?

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Dusty, that makes sense. These cases measure .2675 empty and .2685 loaded. That would be too tight for a .269 neck so the brass must have been thinner back then. Thank you for the advice. I'm going to see about ordering a set of Whidden dies. Would you recommend their seater dies also over other brand seaters?

Not necessarily. Their seaters are real good if you like threaded seaters though. Id get a wilson seater and an arbor press

 

[6.5grendel]

This morning I was curious and checked the neck ID of the Forster seater sleeve with pin gauges. A .267 pin gauge was tight going in. The OD of the sized necks measured .2675 and loaded round measured .2685. If I was turning the necks it would probably work perfect but I got the barrel with a no turn chamber because I didn't want to turn necks on these.

 

[JSH]

So bottom line what is the consensus?

Like a fool I sold my Redding set years back, because I wasn’t going to have another 6BR

So I am in the market for a set.
Jeff

 

[6.5grendel]

Remember, this is an older set of dies marked Forster/Bonanza. The bottom line on this seater die is that they won't work with Lapua brass unless you are turning your neck thickness down at least .001 all the way around for a total of .002 smaller neck OD. The seater die also is designed for thinner necks. It's way over sizing these necks. .010 smaller than needed. Lapua brass has thicker necks than what these dies were made for. I called Forster this morning about this. They said there has been a revision on these dies. Their current dies have different dimensions and should work just fine with Lapua brass. They said I could send these in to them and get them updated for free.

 

[dhagerty40]

Since I used to have some of the Rem brass, I found the neck thickness on the old Rem brass averaged around .002-.003" thinner necks compared to Lapua brass.

I have a set of the Newer forster dies and the Sizer on mine has no expander ball.

Just for info. I also have a 7BR. While the old Rem brass works fine, The lapua brass I have to slightly neck turn in the 7BR.