I am racking my brain trying to figure out what route to take on having my rem 700vssf rebarreled to. I know that i want a 6mm of some type. I really like the 243Ai, but people are telling me to stay away. The 6br is probably the next candidate. I just dont know anything about the 6br. I will have pac-nor do the work, but i really dont even know what to tell them as far as chambering goes. they have a no neck turn chamber, and i think this is what i want but not sure. I am looking for someone to help me out with this project. I need advise as to what will be the best cal to chamber and i need opinions as to what barrel i need from pac-nor. they have a standard match and a super match, 20 bucks difference. any advise, i am pretty new to this and have never had a rifle rebarreled. I dont even know how many groves the rifling needs to be. Thanks Lee
6br or 243Ai coyote rifle build
- Thread starter skeetlee
- Start date
Skeetlee, you love these types of questions don't you?
Hey, no problem with that.
If I was going to limit my distances I would go with the 6br and some lighter bullets.
If this were a long range coyote sniping rifle, I would get the .243 ackley. Less drop and lead on a runner.
If those were my only choices.
But If I had it my way I might chamber up a 6x47 lapua for 75-87 grain bullets. Real anxious to try that one.
Hey, no problem with that.
If I was going to limit my distances I would go with the 6br and some lighter bullets.
If this were a long range coyote sniping rifle, I would get the .243 ackley. Less drop and lead on a runner.
If those were my only choices.
But If I had it my way I might chamber up a 6x47 lapua for 75-87 grain bullets. Real anxious to try that one.
Are you denning or shooting fur?
CatShooter
Hey Skeets...
You're gonna drive the whole shooting community crazy.
When you ask these questions, you need to give more information.
When you ask "Which is better for coyotes, a 6mmBR or a 243 AI?"... there's really more to it than that.
For example, AI chambers are all over the place in headspace, since there are no "SAAMI" standards.
Someone we both know had TWO AIs built by one of the top gun makers, and BOTH gave head separations on the first firing,fire forming loads)... not a good thing. And what I hear some smiths think is their "crush", it makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up.
Also - in spite of all the hype, and some of the positive attributes of the AI cartridges, they have some drawbacks. They typically don't do NOT feed well from repeaters without a lot of work on the rails, and most smiths that do AI's can't do the rails properly. So you wind up with a single shot.
Remington tried t make a repeater in 6mmBR, and threw in the towel - it is also a single shot cartridge.
When you ask this question,on 87 shooting websites
), you don't say what kind of shooting you plan to do.
Are you going to call and shoot, or set up and snipe, or are you going to do looooong range sniping. It makes a difference.
Coyotes are not small targets - at 500 yds, they are typically 4 to 5 minutes wide, so you don't need a benchrest grade rifle... but if you are going to need a second shot - you WILL need a reliable feeding rifle.
There is the temptation to get extreme speciality calibers, like some bigassed case necked down to .224 and shooting 100 grain "darts" at light speed.
While fascinating, they are not very practical for a guy that is new at rifles and new at handloading. Like sexy blond women, they look cool, and everyone says "Oooh aaah", but they can be real expensive to get, and a real pain in the ass to keep and maintain.
So tell us, what kind of shooting will you be doing, and what do you want from the rifle,performance wise)
But, what the hell, it's only money, right???
.
You're gonna drive the whole shooting community crazy.
When you ask these questions, you need to give more information.
When you ask "Which is better for coyotes, a 6mmBR or a 243 AI?"... there's really more to it than that.
For example, AI chambers are all over the place in headspace, since there are no "SAAMI" standards.
Someone we both know had TWO AIs built by one of the top gun makers, and BOTH gave head separations on the first firing,fire forming loads)... not a good thing. And what I hear some smiths think is their "crush", it makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up.
Also - in spite of all the hype, and some of the positive attributes of the AI cartridges, they have some drawbacks. They typically don't do NOT feed well from repeaters without a lot of work on the rails, and most smiths that do AI's can't do the rails properly. So you wind up with a single shot.
Remington tried t make a repeater in 6mmBR, and threw in the towel - it is also a single shot cartridge.
When you ask this question,on 87 shooting websites
), you don't say what kind of shooting you plan to do.Are you going to call and shoot, or set up and snipe, or are you going to do looooong range sniping. It makes a difference.
Coyotes are not small targets - at 500 yds, they are typically 4 to 5 minutes wide, so you don't need a benchrest grade rifle... but if you are going to need a second shot - you WILL need a reliable feeding rifle.
There is the temptation to get extreme speciality calibers, like some bigassed case necked down to .224 and shooting 100 grain "darts" at light speed.
While fascinating, they are not very practical for a guy that is new at rifles and new at handloading. Like sexy blond women, they look cool, and everyone says "Oooh aaah", but they can be real expensive to get, and a real pain in the ass to keep and maintain.
So tell us, what kind of shooting will you be doing, and what do you want from the rifle,performance wise)
But, what the hell, it's only money, right???
.
:lol: "swingle shot cartridge" Yes in most rifles unless you use an Eliseo R5 Tube Kit with a Remington action http://competitionshootingstuff.com/index.html, then you can have a repeater 6BR or if you like you can go with a gas gun and use the 6BR AR15 upper from these guys! http://www.bratrifles.com/
CatShooter
There ya' go - a custom built "toob" rifle to shoot coyotes...
What the hell, it's only money ,his money) right?
Add that to his blond lady, and he'll be on welfare by Thanksgiving.
.
What the hell, it's only money ,his money) right?
Add that to his blond lady, and he'll be on welfare by Thanksgiving.
.
Put the blonde on the back porch and keep the rifle in the living room!
Keep it simple, do a plain jane .243. You're stated purpose is coyote hunting, not bench resting. With a well built rifle a .243 is easily an under 1/2 moa rifle, quality brass is available, it will drive any of the high BC bullets plenty fast with the right twist barrel, and in a pinch you'll fing .243 ammo on virtually every sporting goods stores shelves.
If you have to go improved...
Problem with many so called Ackley Improved chambers is that they are not in fact adhering to Parker Ottos criteria for what consitiutes his finalized version. Possibly the most important was the neck/shoulder junction location of the chamber. It should be about .004" less than the standard chambering which would allow for s slight crush fit of the standard case, be it handloaded or off the shalf ammunition which allows it to be safely fired in an AI chamber, thus allowing for reasonable accuracy with available ammunition while fireforming the cases.
There are many "improved" chamber designs out there, not all of them qualify to be called Ackley Improved. Some use different case taper, some move the shoulder forward or back, some use a different shoulder angle. Before having a barrel chambered I'd suggest that you get the prints to the standard and Ackly reamers from whatever reamer maker you plan on using and make sure the improved chamber has the .004" fit compared to the standard chamber, and use chamber gauges from the same manufacturer. While your at it, get prints of the rleading dies you plan on getting to make sure they are dimensioned to work with the chamber you want to cut.
Finally, find a good smith. Don't shop a smith on price but keep in mind there are some bad smiths that charge good money too. No rifle will shoot better than the quality of it's build.
If you have to go improved...
Problem with many so called Ackley Improved chambers is that they are not in fact adhering to Parker Ottos criteria for what consitiutes his finalized version. Possibly the most important was the neck/shoulder junction location of the chamber. It should be about .004" less than the standard chambering which would allow for s slight crush fit of the standard case, be it handloaded or off the shalf ammunition which allows it to be safely fired in an AI chamber, thus allowing for reasonable accuracy with available ammunition while fireforming the cases.
There are many "improved" chamber designs out there, not all of them qualify to be called Ackley Improved. Some use different case taper, some move the shoulder forward or back, some use a different shoulder angle. Before having a barrel chambered I'd suggest that you get the prints to the standard and Ackly reamers from whatever reamer maker you plan on using and make sure the improved chamber has the .004" fit compared to the standard chamber, and use chamber gauges from the same manufacturer. While your at it, get prints of the rleading dies you plan on getting to make sure they are dimensioned to work with the chamber you want to cut.
Finally, find a good smith. Don't shop a smith on price but keep in mind there are some bad smiths that charge good money too. No rifle will shoot better than the quality of it's build.
I want to shoot coyotes that hang around out in the middel of my corn fiels at aroun 5-800 yards. I also plan on shooting long range steel targets. I just ordered a 6mm super match stainless barrel from Pac-nor, with 3 grove rifling 9 twist. I have a few weeks to decide on what chambering i want. I am new to rifle shooting but not new to shooting by any means. I just want good equipment that can get the job done. For bullets in this 6mm build i would like to try and shoot dtac 115 grain bullets. They are supose to have a bc over five and that appeals to me. any other advise will be appreciated. Lee
My question how many of you guys are skinning these out with all this velocity? Calling is an art but from what I see out on the web most guys are taking singles. If your going to be denning then you will be right on top of them. They are so easy even a caveman can KO a den in short order.
Are you using a decoy dog is another question. If your skinning then who wants to sew them up either.
I know of several coyote hunters some even pros that use a rifle in 22-243
Most of your pros are govt trappers, calling in the AM and setting traps for the rest of the day. Many people watch all these dvd's today when there are guys shooting all year long. Vern Howey, Glen sterling Jr. call and shoot well into the 300-400 a year. Vern Dorn who had about 15k lifetime shooting was a master of the call and many should thank him for the open reed call. All he ever used was a 22-250 and that man could shoot.
Are you using a decoy dog is another question. If your skinning then who wants to sew them up either.
I know of several coyote hunters some even pros that use a rifle in 22-243
Most of your pros are govt trappers, calling in the AM and setting traps for the rest of the day. Many people watch all these dvd's today when there are guys shooting all year long. Vern Howey, Glen sterling Jr. call and shoot well into the 300-400 a year. Vern Dorn who had about 15k lifetime shooting was a master of the call and many should thank him for the open reed call. All he ever used was a 22-250 and that man could shoot.
6mm super match what? I presume 6BR. 1:9 will only shoot 95gr bullets. If I was routinely going 500+ yds, I would want to shoot 105gr-108gr bullets. That will require a 1:8 twist. The 115gr-117gr bullets are a little big for the 6BR. I have seen 6BR with 105 VLDs win 1000yd matches.
Mike
Mike
These were shot by some ameteur. :wave:
I also have the newer 111 DTacs on backorder. David went to this newer bullet as the 117s were coming apart in some rifles/barrels. Though i can't prove it i would think that u r going to have better terminal ballistics to longer ranges with the A-Max or DTac due to the polymer tip enhancing bullet expansion. That's the bullet i'd go with if u're gonna try and get out there as far as possible. Remember the size of the vital zone is only 4-6" broadside. That will be your limiting factor mostly. I have a 243 WSSM Savage Striker that i'll be using this next year for sniping coyotes. It should be perfect with the 117s--we'll see.
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