6BR newbie needs some help with accuracy improvements

[johnsopa]

I installed my 6BR Shilen barrel,1:8 twist, 24", no-turn neck) on what was a Savage 10FP,originally chambered in 308) a few weeks ago. I have loaded and shot about 50 rounds now in 87 gr V-MAX,using between 29 and 31 grains of Varget) and about 50 rounds of 105 gr A-MAX,using between 28 and 30 grains of Varget) in a variety of ladder sets as well as multiple round,10 - 15) sets. I used brand new Lapua brass,simply neck sized using a Lee collet die) and CCI BR4 primers.

I have yet to get a single five round group under 1 MOA whether shooting at 100, 200 or 300 yards.

To be honest, I was expecting some pretty good stuff. I have another Savage 10FP in 223 that shoots about 0.75 MOA out to 300 yards and a Savage 12FV in 204 that shoots about 0.5 MOA out to 300 yards.

I tried swapping scopes,the original was a Bushnell Elite 4200), tried swapping scope ring bases, even removed the action/barrel from the stock and retorqued everything.

When I still had the 308 barrel on it I couldn't get it much better than 1 MOA either. I chalked it up to a bad factory barrel.

Now, I'm not so sure. What are the chances that my action and bolt combination is keeping me at +1 MOA on this rifle?

I'm thinking of putting the 6BR barrel onto either the 223 or 204 action to see what happens.

Any advise would be appreciated!

Thanks,

John

 

[Forum Boss]

John,

What stock is on the gun? On my Savage 10FP the factory tupperware stock sometimes touched the barrel and sometimes didn't--that was giving me unpleasant and unpredicatable vertical.

Is your spread mostly vertical or mostly horizontal?

Who did the chambering job on the Shilen barrel?

 

[Dean]

John,

I also had a disappointing start with my 6BR,only difference is I am using 68gr Berger's.I took some advice from the members here and things are really looking up.

1. I stopped using Varget and now use H322
2. I started using wind flags,this alone helped a bunch)
3. I found that my rifle,also a Savage,likes to be held gently,don't we all)instead of the 100% free recoil I was doing.My shoulder behind the stock about a half inch seems to be what it likes.

Not making any promises,but this cartridge is very accurate and if there are problems they seem to be easily cured.

Good luck with everything,
Dean

 

[johnsopa]

The stock is a Stockade gunstock,composite over aluminum backbone -- http://www.stockadegunstocks.com/stocks.html). It is completely free floated from the barrel nut forward. The 223 I mentioned also has a Stockade stock. The 204 is on a Duramax stock, believe it or not. None are epoxy bedded -- they're only pillar bedded.

The spread is seemingly random -- shotgun style, if you will. I can't tell any vertical nor horizontal patterns.

The chambering was done by Shilen -- this barrel is one of their new pre-fit Savage drop-in barrels.

I have been shooting this in dead-calm mornings. Wind is defintely not a factor.

I guess I was basically wondering if an action can be a culprit like this.

I can try switching to some H322 for the lighter 87 gr V-Maxes but I prefer to use one powder,Varget) as much as possible.

You don't think it could be the action doing this, do you?

 

[Dean]

John,

I see guys shooting the heavier bullets seem to like Varget, it just didn't work for me so I can't swear that switching to H322 is going to be the fix.

As far as the wind goes I also thought I was shooting in calm conditions, but I was wrong.As a matter of fact the wind can play tricks on you.I was at the range on Saturday with the wind at my back AT THE BENCH... out at the target my wind flag was going left to right.

I'm new to this precision shooting game so take my advice with that in mind.These are just my experiences.

Dean

 

[BoydAllen]

Bed your stocks. It matters. And get over the idea that you can tell what the wind is doing without some sort of flags or surveyor's tape on sticks. See if you can spend some time with someone who shoots quarter inch groups and better on a regular basis. Loading at the range is so much more economical when it comes to barrel wear, and time. I do my rough work in two shot groups with close attention to flags. A bad two shot group won't get any smaller no matter how many more shots your put in it. Good luck.

 

[rayjay]

I second the 'bed your stock' answer. I have a stockade short range BR stock on my 6mm and when I went to bed it I was surprised at how much of the foam I had to remove to get the action sitting down on the pillars and not touching anywhere else. Make sure your recoil lug doesn't bottom out in it's well. What recoil lug are you using ?

Go the main site here and find the 'Stress Free Pillar Bedding' article. I used the Devcon and neutral shoe polish and my first bedding job looked just as good as the one in the Richard's pics.

Kevin at Stockade gave me a good tip on the Savage: make sure the front scope base screw is not hitting the bbl threads. He said you can get some crazy fliers if the front screw is too long.

 

[johnsopa]

OK, I will try bedding that stock. Do you think that alone would take things from 1+ MOA to 1/2MOA or close?

The reason I haven't thus far is that I have a bad habit of liking to swap things -- barrels, actions and stocks. Given that I'm shooting well under MOA at 200 - 300 yards with the 204 and 223 that aren't bedded, etc., I was expecting the same and better from the 6mmBR.

Thanks all!

John

 

[rayjay]

If your stock to action fit was as bad as mine you could see a major improvement. No matter what recoil lug you are shooting, check it for flatness. I bent an SSS lug on a 308 that the recoil lug was about 3/16" too long and due to a variety of things [ brain damage & CRS ] I didn't catch it. That gun shot poorly to say the least.

I used the specified recoil lug but somewhere along the way Murphy got busy. This was a used Ebay LRBR stock so who knows it's history.

What was really weird is that it would shoot some Federal factory 180 gr hunting loads into an inch but carefully made reloads with SMK's would go 2+.

 

[RIFLE1]

You said a B&L 6 to 24?, Have you checked to see if you are using a ton of elevation or windage to get your 100 yard zero? New Savages completely suck in this aspect,...ok,...maybe not all of them,.... but the pillar they install for the rear action is 2% away from useless 19 out of 20 times. Sure, I hear you,... Savages have a floating bolt head,... but B&L's don't have a flexible tube. Even if your using a pair of Burris rings w/ inserts, you may be pulling the action so far down into the stock, that you have the classic Remington "no elevation" condition. The B&L's as well as a bunch of other scopes will absolutely refuse to repeat in a condition such as I have described above. Easy to fix, Shim it or get a one piece base and bed the rear of the base in reference to the plain of the front receiver ring. May not be your problem, but I've seen this on a bunch of Savages.,Oh yeah, I am a huge fan of Savages, I just call a duck a duck when I see it.)

Chris

 

[johnsopa]

OK, I was going to bed this stock tonight,already have Devcon, cut some heads off of 1/4" x 28 bolts), but since it is a dead calm evening out back, so I thought I would try an experiment.

I took the Savage action that has my 204 barrel on it off of the Duramaxx stock and put it on the Stockade stock that had the Savage action and new Shilen 6mmBR barrel.

After two shots to re-zero it at 260 yards,up 1/2 MOA, left 5/8 MOA), I put seven shots of 204 into 1.25". Gotta go reload some more 204 rounds now.

So, I know that this action, with a factory 204 barrel, scope mounts and scope will do 1/2 MOA out to 260 yards without bedding.

Before I bed this stock, I am going to put the Shilen 6BR barrel onto it and see whether I can improve on the 1+ MOA at 100 yards. I suppose that if I can, then the original action in question is suspect.

RIFLE1, yes, you are right in that this "problem action" requires the scope to be pretty far out of it's mechanical zero. With a 100 yard zero it is probably UP about 3/4 of the way and LEFT about 85% of the way -- and this is with trying several one-piece Picatinny rail mounts as well as two piece bases. I guess this action really is a "DUCK"!

 

[rayjay]

Your action may be a pretzel. One thing I check is how the bbl nut mates up to the action face. Before I headspace the bbl I screw it on the action without the recoil lug. I then run the nut down and see how well it mates up to the action face.

If seems to be square I then proceed with the bbl install. If one portion of the nut hits with a gap on the other side then I send the action out for truing.

I have 3 single shot actions and 2 are pretty good and the 3rd is way out and waiting for SSS to say ship it.

 

[RIFLE1]

Bedding the stock in this event is a given,.... It is very easy as well however to bed a one piece,,read Pic. rail) to the action, making it straight in reference to the front ring. , after you bed the stock)
There could be as well a pair of posi-align insert style rings from Burris with some offset inserts to ensure mechanical zero.

Let us know,

Chris

 

[tammons]

I would send the action to fred. I had 2 groups under 1/2" within my 1st 50 shots.

I have almost that exact same setup too.

You probably have not quite dialed into your best load yet, but also....

Get a good competition stock and bed it.

Get a better trigger. SSS or riflebasix. That and shooting free recoil helped me more than anything. BTW fred at SSS is supposedly working on a real target trigger for the savages.

Shoot free recoil.

Get a machined recoil lug from SSS.

Have fred at SSS true your action.

Get the best base rings and scope you can afford.

I am using 105 senecars. When I switched from varget to 29 grains of H4895 my groups tightened up. My rifle likes a healthy jam.

Use a vld chamfer tool and debur or polish the inside of the case necks.

Use a torque wrench on your action screws.

Remove the ejector pin.,dont know if this helps, but its easier for me to pick the brass out)

Thats almost the point I am at now, except I still need to have fred true my action.

My last 6mm BR group at 300 yards was 4 shots about 3/4" with 2 almost through the same hole. Thats about 1/4 moa. That was also on a wobbly bench, and before I bought a vld chamfer tool.
That action was a normal 12 model action, untrued on an unbedded choate stock.

That barrel will be going on a new target action I just received which should help too.

I think I can do better, but to go beyond that will take more brass prep, neck turning, neck tensioning, more bullet prep, more accurate powder weighing, etc etc.

Check out the tenessee tack driver and what he does prep wise for brass and bullets. He shoots under 1 1/4" at 600 yards.

http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek030.html

Wind is my weak point right now.

 

[bpost1958]

My encore 6BR HATED the 87 grain bullets: it sprayed them into a shotgun pattern, nothing ever got them to shoot well.

It shoots in the two's using Berger 80 FB Match and loves the 68 Grain FB bullets too. My 80 grain load is 31.5 of Varget.

I would work with the basics first. Chamber, seating depth and powder charge.