6ARC, LVR powder, first loads

[KMW 1954]

Just finished my first attempt with LeveRevolution in a Bolt rifle using Hornady bolt data and a 105gr Hornady bullet, Hornady 3X fired brass and CCI400 primers.

Started this load at 28.5gr working up to 30.0gr in .3gr increments. I also had 2 loaded at 30.3gr but never shot them. At 29.4gr I started seeing ejector marks on the case heads and by 30.0 the marks were very well defined and the bolt was very hard. Also there wasn't any load that stood out or anything to talk about. May try this once more using a max of 29.2gr and seating a bit deeper. This was shot at 100yds.

The 3 center targets are unrelated to this test.

 

[KMW 1954]

Working on this over the weekend and discovered a possible issue. Was loading this bullet to touch with the 2460 and Benchmark. Could be with this powder it needs more jump. Will load some shorter and report back.

 

[DHD]

Not apples to apples here but I am a fan of LeverRevolution and 6.5 Grendel and 6mm ARC both. I am still in load development with the ARC and will use LeverRevolution with 95 grain and heavier bullets (so almost exclusively). I have noted on my last session that my accuracy improves with deeper seating depths. I have some more test loads jumping 103 VTacs .020" and .025". I will conduct the same test with 95 grain SMK's even though they cluster nicely with a .015" jump. I am already seeing the velocities I expected so I have no need to lean on the powder any farther.

The not apples to apples comment was because my 6mm ARC is a well built AR using a 20" Proof SS barrel.

 

[KMW 1954]

Yes I was thinking that the touch seating may be causing a pressure spike. Again this is a whole new cartridge for me and learning a few things I didn't experience with the 223. Also the Hornady data for the gas guns and 103-105gr bullets ends at 29.5gr.

 

[boltfluter]

Just an FYI, Hornady brass is notoriously soft in construction. May be worth a look at a different brand if you have the option. Just a thought. Good shooting too you.
Paul

 

[KMW 1954]

I do have 100pcs of new Starline but will save for now and use up this Hornady.

 

[DHD]

I have 100 pieces of the Hornady brass from factory ammo. After getting it prepped after the 1st firing, I decided to weigh it in comparison to Starline. What a difference. I haven't loaded it as I use either the Starline or some I resized from new Lapua.

I find both the 6mm ARC and 6.5 Grendel are easy to load for and give very low sd's. Not that a low sd equates to a pretty target. I expect when I get back out with my ARC I will find the 103 VTac will like the .020" and .025" jump.

The only time I saw evidence of flattened primers was when I tried some Ruag SR primers (probably similar to a CCI400). Same load with CCI450, Wolf SRM or Rem 7 1/2 looked normal. You are playing with a bolt gun and can get some more go than I can. Whether that is a goal and if it looks good on target or not you'll find out. For me a 95 or 103 at 2700 fps is good.

Fun stuff isn't it.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

I don't see the appeal of the 105 class bullets in this cartridge. I'd go with some lighter bullets for starters. Just look at a 6 PPC and what it does with them. The two cases are very close to the same cartridge with a different name applied. It's like...people don't believe others have tried heavies in a PPC before. They have and it shines brightest...very bright, with lighter projectiles. FWIW.

I shoot a lot and test different combinations from a 6 Grendel, looking for that magic "place." I sincerely believe it's best with 68-80 class bullets but does very well with 90-95 grainers as well. Just run the numbers through any ballistics software and see what you think for yourself.

Hornady is capitalizing on the more popular long range game of today, using this cartridge in an AR15 because it's about as good as it gets in that platform for distance but they wouldn't know a truly accurate rifle if it hit them in the head, from all I've seen.

Do what makes ya happy but don't fall for the marketing. That cartridge performs better with a bit lighter bullets, especially in a good bolt gun where you aren't nearly as limited in regard to pressure. For reference, you should easily be able to get 3000(or more) with 90-95 grainers. I shoot them at 3100 without issue but work up. Use that and the bc of various bullets in the program of your choice to compare drift values to heavier bullets at lower speeds. Again...BOLT gun, not an AR15. Then compare accuracy after working up your best loads for both.

 

[KMW 1954]

I don't see the appeal of the 105 class bullets in this cartridge. I'd go with some lighter bullets for starters. Just look at a 6 PPC and what it does with them. The two cases are very close to the same cartridge with a different name applied. It's like...people don't believe others have tried heavies in a PPC before. They have and it shines brightest...very bright, with lighter projectiles. FWIW.

I see this argument and comparison made frequently yet they always avoid making the same comparison to the 6BR or BRA. Which from my calculations the 6mm ARC is right between both the 6 PPC and the 6 BR Norma. Yet again I shoot against a group of people using a 6mm BR, BRA, Dasher and they are all using 103-105gr bullets.

I can't speak for others but I am attempting to use this in lieu of the 6mm BR as tools are much more available in today's markets. BR Brass is almost impossible to obtain and when it is it is very expensive. Also a good deal of the shooting we do in our league is at 300yds which is beyond optimal for the 6PPC.

But I do not see what any of this has to do with the topic.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

I see this argument and comparison made frequently yet they always avoid making the came comparison to the 6BR or BRA. Which from my calculations the 6mm ARC is right between both the 6 PPC and the 6 BR Norma. Yet again I shoot against a group of people using a 6mm BR, BRA, Dasher and they are all using 103-105gr bullets.

I can't speak for others but I am attempting to use this in lieu of the 6mm BR as tools are much more available in today's markets. BR Brass is almost impossible to obtain and when it is it is very expensive. Also a good deal of the shooting we do in our league is at 300yds which is beyond optimal for the 6PPC.

But I do not see what any of this has to do with the topic.

Oh, I say the same thing about a BRA, too, albeit, a larger case that does do better with the heavier for caliber bullets. They too seem to shoot even better with a bit lighter bullets, IME. Maybe I should say shorter bullets. Not being rude but pointing out that I've been down this path many times before and I'm just reporting what I found a long time ago. Some would consider that helpful while others may not.

The topic appears to be that your 6 ARC is not shooting very well with the components you've chosen. So, that's why I would respectfully disagree that my post is not relevant.

Again, if you're happy, I hope you continue on your way and find whatever you hope to find from your gun and combination. No offense intended.

 

[KMW 1954]

Oh, I say the same thing about a BRA, too, albeit, a larger case that does do better with the heavier for caliber bullets. They too seem to shoot even better with a bit lighter bullets, IME. Maybe I should say shorter bullets. Not being rude but pointing out that I've been down this path many times before and I'm just reporting what I found a long time ago. Some would consider that helpful while others may not.

The topic appears to be that your 6 ARC is not shooting very well with the components you've chosen. So, that's why I would respectfully disagree that my post is not relevant.

Again, if you're happy, I hope you continue on your way and find whatever you hope to find from your gun and combination. No offense intended.

Nowhere in your response and post was there any mention of the use of LeveRevolution powder or how it performs. Seems you just wanted to compare another cartridge to the 6mmARC and how it is superior.

Not to derail my own topic but I was approached this same way buy an admin of another forum. Wanting to know why! Why would anyone do this in this cartridge with a bolt rifle when there are so many others much more capable. To which they listed a few. Which to that I replied again, why do I need a cartridge with 45gr of powder to punch holes in paper when I can do the same thing with only 28gr of powder.

Sorry I attempt to make it known that this is a whole new avenue for me, have many threads going on a few forums. New caliber, cartridge, bullets and powders. Much of which I am trying to wade thru and learn as much as possible. Yes much of what I am doing isn't working but each fail is also a great learning experience. I could take the easy route and repeat what everyone else is doing but where is the learning in that?

Yes I am learning a good deal with this exercise and yes I am enjoying it. I honestly do not know what I will find other than I purchased this rifle used and beginning to believe it is not in the condition I was lead to believe it was in. Yes it should be shooting much better than it is. But again it was purchased with the intention that it will be rebarreled with a Shilen 26'.

No I do not take it as you being Rude and No I take no offense. I do believe though that we have different points of view.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Nowhere in your response and post was there any mention of the use of LeveRevolution powder or how it performs. Seems you just wanted to compare another cartridge to the 6mmARC and how it is superior.

Not to derail my own topic but I was approached this same way buy an admin of another forum. Wanting to know why! Why would anyone do this in this cartridge with a bolt rifle when there are so many others much more capable. To which they listed a few. Which to that I replied again, why do I need a cartridge with 45gr of powder to punch holes in paper when I can do the same thing with only 28gr of powder.

Sorry I attempt to make it known that this is a whole new avenue for me, have many threads going on a few forums. New caliber, cartridge, bullets and powders. Much of which I am trying to wade thru and learn as much as possible. Yes much of what I am doing isn't working but each fail is also a great learning experience. I could take the easy route and repeat what everyone else is doing but where is the learning in that?

Yes I am learning a good deal with this exercise and yes I am enjoying it. I honestly do not know what I will find other than I purchased this rifle used and beginning to believe it is not in the condition I was lead to believe it was in. Yes it should be shooting much better than it is. But again it was purchased with the intention that it will be rebarreled with a Shilen 26'.

No I do not take it as you being Rude and No I take no offense. I do believe though that we have different points of view.

I'm not even sure where we disagree, frankly. I too was lead down the LVR path but it never produced for ME but everyone has different standards.

Good luck! Everything I've said has been to be of friendly benefit. your chip on your shoulder makes that harder than it should be so I'm done. Go back and read my posts. I'm really not sure what upset you about them at all. Sometimes, trying to help turns into a clustf**ck is all I truly do know. It goes along with not hearing what you want to hear, sometimes.

Good luck! Sincerely!

 

[JFrank]

I’m not sure the OP is looking for advice or council.

 

[NZ_Fclass]

I don't see the appeal of the 105 class bullets in this cartridge. I'd go with some lighter bullets for starters. Just look at a 6 PPC and what it does with them. The two cases are very close to the same cartridge with a different name applied. It's like...people don't believe others have tried heavies in a PPC before. They have and it shines brightest...very bright, with lighter projectiles. FWIW.

I shoot a lot and test different combinations from a 6 Grendel, looking for that magic "place." I sincerely believe it's best with 68-80 class bullets but does very well with 90-95 grainers as well. Just run the numbers through any ballistics software and see what you think for yourself.

Hornady is capitalizing on the more popular long range game of today, using this cartridge in an AR15 because it's about as good as it gets in that platform for distance but they wouldn't know a truly accurate rifle if it hit them in the head, from all I've seen.

Do what makes ya happy but don't fall for the marketing. That cartridge performs better with a bit lighter bullets, especially in a good bolt gun where you aren't nearly as limited in regard to pressure. For reference, you should easily be able to get 3000(or more) with 90-95 grainers. I shoot them at 3100 without issue but work up. Use that and the bc of various bullets in the program of your choice to compare drift values to heavier bullets at lower speeds. Again...BOLT gun, not an AR15. Then compare accuracy after working up your best loads for both.

I suspect that you have hit the nail on the head, quite firmly. The ARC is not a 6BR, which performs well with the 105 class of bullets. Other than the AR platform, why bother? It's neither a PPC or a BR, so treat it as such and get good results with the "correct" bullet.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

I suspect that you have hit the nail on the head, quite firmly. The ARC is not a 6BR, which performs well with the 105 class of bullets. Other than the AR platform, why bother? It's neither a PPC or a BR, so treat it as such and get good results with the "correct" bullet.

I only stated MY experience with a 6 Grendel, which of course is in between even a 6 ARC and a 6BR. Really, we're splitting a pretty fine hair here. It's really NOT a matter of this only works best in a PPC or Grendel but not in an ARC, which falls right between those two, too. How many times do we split this hair? Can I or you shoot the difference? I can only say that the OP's groups leave a lot to be desired from a good rifle and load combination at 100 yards. Nuff said about that. Indisputable, as they aren't close to being competitive. Did I mention that I've won two or three National level Agg and Grand Agg events with both 68's and with 80's at 100 and 200 yard matches with a 6 Grendel? No, I didn't mention that yet. Shouldn't have to. I'm very sure the OP has this by the short hairs...to his own satisfaction, which is all that matters. To his OWN satisfaction! Mine has nothing to do with it! So, he's right and I'm wrong. Have been all along. My apologies.

 

[Rob01]

Nothing wrong with 105s in an ARC. I shoot 110 ATips in my 26" bolt gun and they run great. So do the factory 108 ELD-M factory loads. They are in the 2720-2780fps range from factory to my handloads. Shooting them in PRS matches so the lower velocity is not an issue as their recoil is low.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Nothing wrong with 105s in an ARC. I shoot 110 ATips in my 26" bolt gun and they run great. So do the factory 108 ELD-M factory loads. They are in the 2720-2780fps range from factory to my handloads. Shooting them in PRS matches so the lower velocity is not an issue as their recoil is low.

Factory ammo...I didn't think, was part of this discussion. Again..my apologies as I've never expected much from any factory ammo. We all have different expectations and the op wasn't happy with what appeared to be sub .4 groups in his test, either.

Just being honest here...a good bolt gun in 6 PPC, 6 ARC or 6 Grendel should shoot zero's to mid teens at worst at 100 yards. Just that simple and a lot of room there for what we all call "acceptable"...and maybe even agg in the teens. His posted targets were at 100. Stated intentions, out to 300, IIRC. The groups tell me it's the gun more than the shooter...fwiw.

 

[Rob01]

Factory ammo...I didn't think, was part of this discussion. Again..my apologies as I've never expected much from any factory ammo.

It works quite well from my bolt gun and nice to have an option if needed. Have a 10" steel at the 1000 yard berm at my range and can ring that with the factory ammo with a good wind hold of course LOL

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

It works quite well from my bolt gun and nice to have an option if needed. Have a 10" steel at the 1000 yard berm at my range and can ring that with the factory ammo with a good wind hold of course LOL

He's already well under that in moa, unless I'm mistaken. But again, his targets were at 100 and stated intentions were for out to 300 yards. Please, correct me if I'm wrong here but that's how I read it and I don't know of a 100-300 yard game where 1 moa is competitive. Just different disciplines is all.

 

[KMW 1954]

I'm not even sure where we disagree, frankly. I too was lead down the LVR path but it never produced for ME but everyone has different standards.

Good luck! Everything I've said has been to be of friendly benefit. your chip on your shoulder makes that harder than it should be so I'm done. Go back and read my posts. I'm really not sure what upset you about them at all. Sometimes, trying to help turns into a clustf**ck is all I truly do know. It goes along with not hearing what you want to hear, sometimes.

Good luck! Sincerely!

Factory ammo...I didn't think, was part of this discussion. Again..my apologies as I've never expected much from any factory ammo. We all have different expectations and the op wasn't happy with what appeared to be sub .4 groups in his test, either.

Just being honest here...a good bolt gun in 6 PPC, 6 ARC or 6 Grendel should shoot zero's to mid teens at worst at 100 yards. Just that simple and a lot of room there for what we all call "acceptable"...and maybe even agg in the teens. His posted targets were at 100. Stated intentions, out to 300, IIRC. The groups tell me it's the gun more than the shooter...fwiw.

Sure would like to hear about this "chip" unless asking to stay on topic is a "chip".

What is it I'm "looking to hear" other than you could have just stated from the beginning that you had zero luck with this powder? Then I would have asked why? What did you see? Experience? Instead you went off on a tirade about the merits of the PPC.

Then to finish the highlighted part of your response I have also already addressed and concure that I believe there is a problem with the rifle but I guess you overlooked that comment as well.

So if you feel the chip and need to drop out of the discussion go ahead I will understand.