62gr Maker T-Rex load data or velocity???

[Lefty2506]

Looking for some help with 62g Maker T-Rex projectiles. I’m loading them with BLC-2 because I’ve got a pound that I’m not using for anything else. Since there’s no loading data for Maker bullets, I looked up BLC-2 load data for several 62, 63, 69, and 70gr projectiles to come up with a starting point. I ended up loading 3 rounds each at 23.6, 23.9, 24.2, 24.5, 24.8, 25.1, and 25.4 gr. I watched my primers and chronograph for signs of when to stop thinking that if I hit 3,000 fps I would definitely be in the “proceed with caution” range. I had quite the opposite experience. Everything was incredibly slow (2350 to 2550) fps. I shot them out of a 16” Aero Precision upper with a .223 Wylde chamber. Starting velocities in the books is around 2800 fps, and my max loads didn’t even get close to that. The primers look fine, and the spent brass is very dirty so I’ve thought about going higher. If they are running this slow, I'm not certain that this powder will ever get them up over 2800 fps where they ought to be. Accuracy was around 2 MOA for most of the loads. I normally consider that to be lousy, but for the way this rifle is configured I'll consider it as mediocre but acceptable.

So I guess my questions are as follows:

Is there any benefit to continuing my .3 gr increments up to 27 gr? If I can’t get to at least 2800 fps, I’m not really interested in the load because they just drop too fast.

Is anyone else reloading this bullet? If so, what powder are you using and are you seeing significantly lower velocities, or noticeably more drop at distance?

Thanks,
Mark

 

[Twdmar]

Did you use hodgdon's data? It's for a 24" barrel, that will account for some of the decreased velocity. Bl-c2 might be a tad slow for best performance from a 16 inch. Do you have something like TAC? 3000 fps out of a carbine is gonna be tough. GI ammunition is fast but it's way over pressure. That's how they get speed out of their carbines.

 

[Lefty2506]

Hodgdon doesn't have data for the 62 gr Maker bullets. I did look at their data for the 62gr Scirocco which I presumed would be close. Their data says starting charge of 22.5gr produces 2772 fps, and a max charge of 24.2 gr launces the 62 gr Scirocco at 2949 fps. I'm 8" shorter which is definitely going to reduce my velocity, but by 25.4 gr I would think I would be up to 2800 fps, not 2550 to 2600 fps.

I do have a couple pounds of TAC also. I've started moving to it as my generic "go-to" powder blasting ammo. Maybe I'll switch things up and develop a good load with TAC and use the BLC-2 for blasting (ie CQB training).

I have several loads for 69 to 75 gr pills that exceed 2900 fps on 20" barrels, but you are right. They are HOT. They also happen to be VERY accurate.

 

[Twdmar]

62 gr bullets are probably similar enough that data is interchangeable if you don't start at max right out of the gate. Work up and you'll be fine.
A bullet/powder/barrel combo that works in one setup, may not in another.. A slightly faster burning powder should be a better choice for the lighter bullet and shorter barrel
There is nothing wrong with TAC. I have shot moa or better with 77s and TAC with thrown charges at 600 yds. And you can get a lot of speed with it too.

 

[fkimble@charter.net]

With the "very dirty brass" and no pressure signs, I'd be inclined to continue upping the powder charge. Just go slow and check each piece of brass after each shot. Maybe increase neck tension if easily doable with your set up.

Frank

 

[SmallFunGroups]

I would contact the manufacturer, and see what they have to say about recommended load data. Looking at the company's website, the Maker T-rex comes in two different variations at the 62gr bullet weight. There are two T-rex designs marketed as "high velocity" in the header description, one has an open tip, the other is a tipped version. There is also a Rex 62gr bullet that does not have "high velocity" description in the header. Unfortunately, Maker does not have load data posted on their website for any of these projectiles.

My thoughts are that copper/alloy bullets usually have a longer bearing surface vs lead core bullets, which can create higher initial chamber pressure when shooting copper/alloy projectiles. I would certainly not use lead core bullet load data because of the potential for higher initial chamber pressure unless Maker tells you otherwise. As an example, I shoot the Lehigh Defense 62gr controlled chaos projectile using that manufacturer's load data instead of using Hornady's 60/62gr load data for lead core bullets. I use them in 223 wylde and 5.56 chambered barrels. For example, the max charge for the Lehigh bullet is lower (Lehigh load data) vs the lead core bullet load data (Hornady load data for lead core 60/62gr bullets).

Hodgdon's max charge load data for the Swift Scirocco (lead free bullet) using BLC-2 is 24.2 grs, while Lehigh's 62gr controlled chaos max charge load data is 25.5gr. This indicates that Lehigh has tested their product for pressure, and has determined you can safely work up to a higher max charge vs Hodgdon's load data for the Swift Scirocco copper/alloy load data.

I think it is worth asking Maker what they recommend for the bullet you have, given there are three different variations of the 62gr projectile. I would hate to see you run into pressure issues, but I understand your desire to push the projectiles faster if it is safe to do so.

 

[Lefty2506]

I've been shooting a lot (relatively speaking) of monolithic projectiles the past 4 or 5 years. Some Barnes, some Cavity Back, depending on the weapon and application. I've been amazed by both the expansion and the penetration they are able to provide. Thus, I'm on a path to develop some kind of monolithic load for rifles that MIGHT need to generate a wound channel at some point. All else being equal, a monolithic projectile does have higher pressure than its grain for grain cup and core equivalent. Most designs have multiple reliefs cut on the OD to minimize this increase in pressure. The size and shape of these cuts, in conjunction with variations on the shape of the projectile can and do significantly impact the pressure. Sounds like Lehigh has done a better job of optimizing their projectile so that the load data more closely resembles that of a standard cup and core design. The projectiles I have from Maker have the relief cuts, but they VERY small, and I doubt they do anything to appreciably reduce the pressure created from the increased friction.

I've contacted Maker about load data in the past and never received a reply. I do not gather that the owner is interested in developing load data for several different powders for the projectiles that he offers, and I get that. I'll relegate the BLC-2 to a plinking/blasting/CQB training load and switch to TAC since I have it on the shelf also.

This is my first rodeo with Maker projectiles. I've met several people who use their bullets for hunting, mostly in a 45 cal version, and they all speak VERY highly of the terminal effect. I was going to go with Barnes TSX, but they were not available at the time. Maker shows out of stock, but it sounds like he fills a back order pretty quickly (days, not weeks). I'd really like to get a good load going for this projectile because I like to support the smaller businesses like Maker and CBB. Even in these crazy times, they have been able to fill my orders quickly. Maker is noticeably less expensive that CBB, so I'm trying to go this route for things that I might want to load in a little higher volume such as 5.56 and 300 Black Out. My particular effort in this case, doesn't have anything to do with hunting, but I have considered trying their 308 projectiles in a 300 BO super sonic load for deer though. If it's accurate, gets 3x expansion, and can still penetrate deep enough, that would a really good option for this area. Based on the hog hunting videos I've seen, expansion and penetration shouldn't be a problem. Just need to find an accurate load.

Thanks for all the help!
Mark

 

[SmallFunGroups]

I've been shooting a lot (relatively speaking) of monolithic projectiles the past 4 or 5 years. Some Barnes, some Cavity Back, depending on the weapon and application. I've been amazed by both the expansion and the penetration they are able to provide. Thus, I'm on a path to develop some kind of monolithic load for rifles that MIGHT need to generate a wound channel at some point. All else being equal, a monolithic projectile does have higher pressure than its grain for grain cup and core equivalent. Most designs have multiple reliefs cut on the OD to minimize this increase in pressure. The size and shape of these cuts, in conjunction with variations on the shape of the projectile can and do significantly impact the pressure. Sounds like Lehigh has done a better job of optimizing their projectile so that the load data more closely resembles that of a standard cup and core design. The projectiles I have from Maker have the relief cuts, but they VERY small, and I doubt they do anything to appreciably reduce the pressure created from the increased friction.

I've contacted Maker about load data in the past and never received a reply. I do not gather that the owner is interested in developing load data for several different powders for the projectiles that he offers, and I get that. I'll relegate the BLC-2 to a plinking/blasting/CQB training load and switch to TAC since I have it on the shelf also.

This is my first rodeo with Maker projectiles. I've met several people who use their bullets for hunting, mostly in a 45 cal version, and they all speak VERY highly of the terminal effect. I was going to go with Barnes TSX, but they were not available at the time. Maker shows out of stock, but it sounds like he fills a back order pretty quickly (days, not weeks). I'd really like to get a good load going for this projectile because I like to support the smaller businesses like Maker and CBB. Even in these crazy times, they have been able to fill my orders quickly. Maker is noticeably less expensive that CBB, so I'm trying to go this route for things that I might want to load in a little higher volume such as 5.56 and 300 Black Out. My particular effort in this case, doesn't have anything to do with hunting, but I have considered trying their 308 projectiles in a 300 BO super sonic load for deer though. If it's accurate, gets 3x expansion, and can still penetrate deep enough, that would a really good option for this area. Based on the hog hunting videos I've seen, expansion and penetration shouldn't be a problem. Just need to find an accurate load.

Thanks for all the help!
Mark

Mark,

I did a bit more digging on finding some load data for the Maker T-Rex, and good old Johnny's Reloading Bench (JRB) on YouTube has some great observations. He found that Barnes Reloading data put him back in the right area with the 70gr Maker Rex. He had used cup and core data in a previous video, and he got some scary pressure results (blown primers, heavy brass flow in an AR15). JRB commented that Barnes and Maker bullets look very similar, maybe even made in the same facility. I would watch JRB, Butt Kicken' 5.56 bullets episode 1 and 2 for videos on the Maker 70gr Rex. Video 2 is the most relevant, much shorter video too.

Barnes 223 rem load data for the 62gr TTSX is:
BLC-2 (min) 23.5 - (max) 25.5
TAC (min) 22.5 - (max) 24.5
Varget (min) 23.5 - (max, compressed load) 25.5

They list a few other powders. Varget was the most accurate powder tested.

Barnes also has 5.56 load data for the Tac-x bullet, tested at different barrel lengths. Those loads seem really hot, exceeding what Hornady has down for some cup and core bullets....that might be too sketchy for me.

I also run 223 wylde chambers, and I am really interested to see what you find out. Excessively dirty cases sometimes encourages me to keep moving up in powder charge weight, but I don't want to put that evil on anyone but myself. I might have to order some of those bullets, maybe some hammer hunters as well.

FWIW, I have found the Lehigh Defense 62gr controlled chaos bullets shoot really well in my 223 wylde and 5.56 chambered ARs. Give those a try some time if you can.

 

[varmintshooter]

I think BL C2 is to slow for a 16" barrel. I would try Benchmark, RL7 or some other faster burning powder.