600 Yard F-Class

[nonnieselman]

I started out in 2007 or 2008 shooting 600 yard F-Class with some old farts in a hay field. All i had was a 270 Win so that's what i used with 140gr bergers.. It would shoot great till it got hot. So after beating the crap out of my shoulder i bought a .22-250 9 twist barrel and fixed up a burnt out .22-250 i had. I "Won" quite a few matches with it in open. They closed down our little make do range in 2009?
Finally getting the bug back this year and been practicing a good bit. This time i put together a 20" AR with a 223 Wylde chamber and 8 twist barrel. Sometimes i could get 80gr bergers to shoot good at 600 but other times they did bad. Figuring it was a twist issue i went to the 73gr ELDM and they showed promise but had several flyers. Decided to try 77gr Sierra TMK's and it has been doing great with H4895 and BR4's.

Sunday i went out and did a mock match by myself. 30 rounds on 3 different gongs so i could see my hits, repaint and 30 more rounds on the 3 gongs. I have a 48"x96" sheet of AR500 i setup on a A-frame like a swing set so i can pull it around the farm. I know shooting steel doesn't show results like shooting paper but its a lot easier.
Using Range Buddy app Ive been keeping up with my group size and my best 10rd group was 3.47" and the worse was 6.56".

My issue is that Ive had a lot better luck with prepped Winchester brass than i have with Lapua.
There were several flyers with Lapua brass than i couldn't figure out so i went back to the same 100 pieces of Winchester brass i did minimum prep on.
Going to anneal the Lapua this weekend and see if it comes around. Hate to spend that much money on brass and have weird issues.

At what point do you say just go with it and have fun or get down and dirty to squeeze every little bit out of your setup? I am still not sure what the different divisions are in F-Class, i just go and they put me in a class, i shoot and try to compare my results with the previous match to see if i improved any.

Any Advice you can give?
Its just a plane 20" AR15 with a 6.5-20 Vortex scope and a Bipod. What class would i need to go for?

 

[Dos XX]

Do you know the round is supersonic at 600yds? If so, my advice is go shoot it. It is way better than not shooting.

 

[kzin]

Your current rig puts you in f-tr at a huge disadvantage to 30" barrel bolt guns with 50x scopes and f-class specific bipods. 1-7 twist lets them stabilize 90gr bullets in 223.

That's fine for having a ball, pounding the black but you won't compete unless you're clearly the best shooter.

What you're almost set for is AR-Tactical which officially is not f-class. 20" barrel is just right. Shoot the 77's from a mag. Your scope is over-powered, need to at least turn it down to 15x, technically needs to be 15x maximum. Folding bipod is ok. Rear bag must be 'tactical' no rabbit ears.

 

[Dos XX]

Go to a match and shoot it. Don't get caught up in what class you are in. If that is what you have, that is what you have. Go shoot a match and figure it out from there. We have AR's at our matches all the time. We have a jr shooter that shoots one, and he does pretty good with it.

 

[nonnieselman]

Do you know the round is supersonic at 600yds? If so, my advice is go shoot it. It is way better than not shooting.

Yea its supersonic out to 1000-1025 yards by the calculator with today's atmospheric conditions. Ive shot it out to 800 and it still shoots good. If it holds together at 1000 tomorrow it will make me feel a lot better. Might even try a 1000 yard match just for the heck of it.

Go to a match and shoot it. Don't get caught up in what class you are in. If that is what you have, that is what you have. Go shoot a match and figure it out from there. We have AR's at our matches all the time. We have a jr shooter that shoots one, and he does pretty good with it.

I plan to make my first match on the 24th of this month. I use to enjoy them. We will see how it goes. They have electronic targets now so no more working the hot pits and fighting off pissed off wasp.

Your current rig puts you in f-tr at a huge disadvantage to 30" barrel bolt guns with 50x scopes and f-class specific bipods. 1-7 twist lets them stabilize 90gr bullets in 223.
That's fine for having a ball, pounding the black but you won't compete unless you're clearly the best shooter.
What you're almost set for is AR-Tactical which officially is not f-class. 20" barrel is just right. Shoot the 77's from a mag. Your scope is over-powered, need to at least turn it down to 15x, technically needs to be 15x maximum. Folding bipod is ok. Rear bag must be 'tactical' no rabbit ears.

Yea im not out there to win the gold every time. Just to have fun and hang out with good folks.
I was just looking over the rules and seen they have that division now. I can make that work. It sounds like a lot more fun than going all out with a fancy rig. I still use this rifle for daytime coyotes and deer hunting.

 

[nonnieselman]

Shot it out to 1000 Saturday. It didnt do so well with the horrible winds. But at 600 it did well enough that I am going to make the next match and use that as my starting point.

 

[kzin]

Shot it out to 1000 Saturday. It didnt do so well with the horrible winds. But at 600 it did well enough that I am going to make the next match and use that as my starting point.

Never been to 1000 myself yet.
How bad was it?
On an 8's and 9's to complete misses scale?

 

[nonnieselman]

Im not sure on the scaling measurements on a 1000 yard target but a 10 round group was around 18-20". Never could hit the 12" plate tho. Id just shoot 10 rounds and go check it. Vertical dispersion looked really good but that wind pushed them little bullets all over the place.
Ballistic Calculator shows a 1mph Wind should push it off 11.5"
If i missed a wind call by 2mph that's 23" drift.

 

[BronzeArcher]

Keeping .223 bullets supersonic at 1000 yards requires some care and is less likely shooting from an AR with a 20" barrel. 800 yards with the bullet you mentioned is much more likely to work.

 

[Dgd6mm]

Remember letoffs are twice as fast as pickups in the wind department.

 

[nonnieselman]

Keeping .223 bullets supersonic at 1000 yards requires some care and is less likely shooting from an AR with a 20" barrel. 800 yards with the bullet you mentioned is much more likely to work.

Yep, just out there having fun. I wasnt doing anything special, it was just 77 grain TMK seated to mag length and the 20" barrel.

 

[C. Collins]

The answer to the original post is, "what are your goals?"

If you want to bang steel and experiment with the ar keep doing what youre doing.

If you want to travel and shoot fclass. It might be time to set up a good bolt rifle. Most people start with a savage in a 6.5 or 6mm. It will work well for you. If you want to shoot great at 1000 yards get a custom action with a great barrel in some type of 284. Plan to shoot the 180 hybrid.

Until you make a choice this is the best advice i can give.

 

[boltman13]

Here is some advice, probably worth less than it is costing you, but here goes. The set up you have sounds like it is competitive in Tactical Mid Range. Go shoot and have a good time and win some. There is no long range tactical class, and you would compete as a F-TR. All matches have some 1,000 yard stages, many only at 1,000. Getting a 20" 1:8 twist to get a 77 gr TMK to 1,000 yards is running on the edge of dangerous. Plan A, a 1:7 barrel 20" or better still longer opens up the ability to use heavier higher BC bullets at high enough velocity to stay above the transonic range at 1,000 yards. You will be at a disadvantage in windy conditions, until your wind reading improves. You will have to seat your bullets longer than magazine length but it is not a problem. Plan B, find a Savage used rifle in 223 Rem., get a prefit Savage 1:7 barrel and have it chambered in 223 with a Wylde chamber and as long as 30". Get an after market laminated prone stock, pillar and glass bed it. Your Vortex scope is a little low powered for Long Range F-TR but it will work, particularly if it is a Viper which has very accurate tracking in my experience. I don't know what brand of bipod you have but you can add a better one as funds allow if you wish. This will enable you to drive high BC bullets to 1,000 yds. with higher velocity and less wind drift. Plan C, instead of a 223 build get a 308 Win Savage action, a 1;10, 308 Win. barrel at least 30" and now you can handle heavy 180-200 grain match bullets that handle the wind better. Keep in mind the F-Class 10 ring in 1 MOA in diameter. On a personal note I had a Savage Model 11 action with a non target Acutrigger in 223, fitted to a 30" Xcalaber 1"7 twist bull barrel, with a Wylde chamber, and pillar and glass bedded to a Boyd's tactical stock with their adjustable comb, and extra weight added in the magazine well below a single shot follower. I use it for Mid Range F-TR matches and it is more accurate than I can shoot it. It also has a Vortex Viper 6X20, 30 mm, scope. I have never shot my load a 80 gr Hornady ELD-M in front of a stout load of Varget beyond 600 yards but I know it will get there. Best of luck, and have fun.