6 dasher fireforming

[Frankr]

My 6 dasher has arrivied. well i still need to get it stocked and a scope, ect. But i'm allmost there.

Anyhow i read a artical some time back on this site where i guy was fireforming useing pistol powder and someting
i searched for it but cant find it. he had pic's of his cases in steps till he found the right charge that made a good case. anyone know how to find it?

I guess i will fireform useing the step shoulder method with the bullets jamed. but i have fireformed some ppc cases with pistol powder and it worked very well. so i was wanting to look over that artical but cant find it.

 

[40X Guy]

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2008/04/forming-dasher-cases-with-pistol-powder/

This is exact method i used when I got my first Dasher and was not happy with the results. They come out 85-90% formed and need to be fireformed at least once to get the case fully formed. I now turn the neck to the required depth on the 6BR case neck and use that for the false shoulder. All my Dashers are tight neck chambers.

Frank

 

[Frankr]

Thanks 40x guy. i could not find it.\

Did you use the cream of wheat? did you try going up a half grain of powder or two for you chamber/combo ect.
they said that it still would take one fireing to get a good sharp shoulder. how did your barrel look after fireing that junk down it...I would have to research what i used to make ppc cases, I think i used a full case of unique powder and it made real nice fully formed ppc cases. I just worried about barrel damage in the lead. so i went back to just shooting them and it has worked well as allways..but i was thinking of trying to make a few in the basement.lol..

was a full case of bullseye powder on the ppc cases not unique.

 

[tclaunch]

I tried COW, and then tried something I was told about and used 1/4 sheet of toilet tissue, folded and stuffed in the case over 19 grains of Bullseye. I switched to Tightwad powder at 19 to 19.5 and still use the 1/4 sheet of tissue and it does as well as any I found without a bullet.

 

[Frankr]

well i just fireformed one in my basement..I neck up to .264 then steped the neck down to .266 with some crush on the case. loaded up 20.0 gr's Bullseye powder. toped off with a piece of toilet paper. got sayety geared up.
lubed the outside of the case with imperial sizeing wax,wiped off the excess. I dont want to get a case stuck in the chamber plus i feel it helps them size to the chamber. I let one rip..ooh that was loud! well all went well and i have i niced fireformed case. OAL 1.532. case extracted easy. chambers with light crush so it is full sized. It looks good, sharp at the neck and shoulder junction but very slightly rounded at the shoulder and body junction. but i think even fireforming with bullet and full charge you could expect to maybe fire it again to have a good full case.
but i have never seen a 6 dasher case before.lol just on here in picture's..ha first one in my neck of the woods to have one. my only real concern is how much damage could that fast burning powder do to my throat. maybe boyd allen has that answer?

 

[Petros284]

I tried the COW method with my first 100 pieces of brass. It formed about 90% to final, but I have been much happier with fireforming with a false shoulder, minimal load. and a "cheap" bullet jammed in the rifling. Much better results, and it does shoot pretty well even with the lighter load! The COW method was messy, and requires frequent cleaning. I was hesitant, but intrigued about trying it out. I will not do it again, and it is a bit nerving running COW down a new barrel. My 2 cents worth!! Good luck!

 

[tclaunch]

You will eventually want an old shot out 6PPC barrel set back to a Dasher for a dedicated fireform barrel.

 

[Frankr]

thanks for the help guy's..my only real concern is with the 20.0 gr's bullseye is it makes the bore real dirty and i wonder about throat damage. but was thinking maybe because it's quick and most of it's free to go out the bore with out resistance it maybe cooler and faster so it maybe just unburned powder fouling and it may do no damage at all..I just dont know..I know i quit doing it in my ppc because i feared i might damage the barrel, so i just fireform them with a bullet. but 50 cases fireformed is plenty to get through a season for me because we load them right at the range after a relay is over. but with the dasher i will need more, i plan to start with 200 cases.

so just turning the wheels in my head..

 

[tclaunch]

One thing I learned that is a very good lesson is to use Federal 205`s for fireforming. They are easy to light and do not force the case forward, and the rate of misfires goes way, way down.

 

[painless2]

I have formed hundreds of dasher cases without any split necks etc. Neck up to .257, then run thru your fs die with a 267 bushing. adjust the bushing to have some crush when you close the bolt, best to take the firing pin out, be especially care with a custom action. About 9 grains of win 231, then fill with COW and stuff the last 1/4 inch with a piece of paper towel. I shoot these in the garage. will fireform 98 %. The second firing can be shot in a match. Why run a bullet down your match barrel?
Tom

 

[longbow]

It is always A good idea to remove the ejector spring from bolt. Knock out side pin, drop out ejector pin, drop out spring. Put eject pin back it, you have a good solid base for your case to headspace properly. Be sure and put that little spring in a small ziplock! Pete

 

[MTlager]

I use 14 1/2 grains bullseye cow 17 cal patch. Just load em and shoot them (no false shoulder) in a Rem 700 with old ppc barrel chambered with .268 neck. Light lube on case and don't let chamber get too warm, or cases will get short. would not think of doing this in a match gun!

 

[BoydAllen]

If I were going to make Dasher cases, I would probably chamber a worn out 6PPC barrel for fire forming. That way, if I cooked the throat forming a lot of cases with pistol powder (and NO BULLET) it would not matter. What I do for 6PPCs would not apply to a case that started out with the neck close to the needed diameter.

 

[Frankr]

I have formed hundreds of dasher cases without any split necks etc. Neck up to .257, then run thru your fs die with a 267 bushing. adjust the bushing to have some crush when you close the bolt, best to take the firing pin out, be especially care with a custom action. About 9 grains of win 231, then fill with COW and stuff the last 1/4 inch with a piece of paper towel. I shoot these in the garage. will fireform 98 %. The second firing can be shot in a match. Why run a bullet down your match barrel?
Tom

painless2 what barrel are you useing? have you used your match barrel to do this? how well has it shot ?

I'm just courious, yea i think 9 gr's of powder per case would mostly get burned up in the case, i dont think cream of wheat could harm a steel barrel. I agree not only the cost of powder,and i have formed a few ackley cases before and it usually takes a good full hot load to get a good case on the first fireing or you are shooting them twice to get one..the cost of the bullets, the cost of the wear and tear on your barrel. I know it would be nice to have a fireforming barrel. but i dont at this time. so just wanting to try and minimze barrel wear and if i save enough to buy a extra 200 bullets that's also good.so i will try the cow thing, I have considered a hydro-form die but the are as pricey as a fireform barrel,and take much longer to get. I could just call shooters corner and get a junk 6mm barrel. have it chambered with my reamer and have a fireform barrel. but in the mean time all i have is this brand'y new bartlein 8 twist. yep my very first 8 twist barrel. as i have allways been a die hard slow twist kind of guy. but i ordered another 8 twist in a sporter for a dasher hunting rifle.

 

[40X Guy]

Thanks 40x guy. i could not find it.\

Did you use the cream of wheat? did you try going up a half grain of powder or two for you chamber/combo ect.
they said that it still would take one fireing to get a good sharp shoulder. how did your barrel look after fireing that junk down it...I would have to research what i used to make ppc cases, I think i used a full case of unique powder and it made real nice fully formed ppc cases. I just worried about barrel damage in the lead. so i went back to just shooting them and it has worked well as allways..but i was thinking of trying to make a few in the basement.lol..

was a full case of bullseye powder on the ppc cases not unique.

FJIM, yes I used the COW and fireformed 50 cases but felt it was a waste of time. I used 8.5 grains of Titewad powder after expanding up to .257 then sizing case neck with .267 bushing to a tight fit in the chamber when closing bolt. Then as mentioned used 205 primers and one quarter piece of TP stuffed on top of the Tightwad. I did run wet patches thru the bore after every 5 COW shots and was nervous about screwing up my barrel also at the time. After all this I still had to turn the necks and the cases were too loose for my liking on the cutting tool mandrel. After borescoping there was zero damage to the barrell. I figured out that the best way is use junk bullets with Varget and using the turned neck as the false shoulder works the best for me. Double benefit of a better defined fireformed case and breaking in the barrel at the same time IMHO. And less work also.

I have often wondered if the COW actually helped "smooth" the throat and leade areas in my new Broughton barrel to some extent.

Frank

 

[expiper]

FJIM,,dont forget that you can FF without cream of wheat or a bullet....I like to use aprox. 55% of the capacity of the case (whether its a magnum or a Dasher) of Universal Clays and keep it in place with a 1/4 square of toilet paper....it avoids the stink and mess of using COW and doesnt give any bbl. wear,and they are much quicker to load....I have a FF bbl for one of my Ackley cases...I took an old benchrest bbl. and re-chamered it for my cal. and shot it some ,,,it still shot very well with 68gr botique bullets...I took repeated measurements on the throat length and seating depth,,,then I used it to fire form 400 cases without cleaning and shot them 50 at a time without letting the bbl cool....I didnt care if it hurt the bore and was curious to see if it would,,,,guess what after the 400 rds of FF (after cleaning the bbl. shot as good as before--No harm)...NO measureable wear on the throat.....I know its only 400,,,but was done in a very abausive way....NO WEAR....you do the math....it works for me....hope this helps others to see a better way.....Roger

 

[lpreddick]

i use the cow process for any case that needs it prior to firing with a bullet...22BR, 6BRX, all ackley imp, 6-284 and even 22-250 so as to form the case to the chamber, maybe ironing out any irregularities in the case. i do this in my small shop. very little noise. i bought a large bale of fireresistent attic insulation. make a hole in one end, insert a broom handle and make a small cavity. insert barrel about 10-12 inches and whuuummmppp. i have used this bale for hundreds of cases and it still works... very large suppressor. i have tried several pistol powders and have settled on hodgdons clays and will increase charge until case is 95+formed by measuring diameters and headspacing and note a significant improvement in neck runout in 22BR after necking down in stages.

 

[Frankr]

thanks everyone..I will give the clays a try. but yea i'm going to get a fire form barrel..

 

[lpreddick]

i fireformed 50 22 BR cases yesterday using my usual cow formula A BIG PROBLEM! i'v had this before but have pretty much had it with cow now. 2 or 3 cases out of 5 will have a very hard deposit of cow deposited in the shoulder ares inside the case and is visible. getting this stuff out was a royal PITA! it felt like baked, calcified cement. i had to bend a stiff wire and really gouge the stuff out. one case had 5.6 gr of this baked cow inside. borescoped the cases and found small areas not visible with naked eye. cow is a vegetable like product and it looks like it was being cooked! i tried a product called Super Grex...shot buffer made by winchester. it seems to be perhaps a ground plastic material. it will melt under open flame after 10-15 sec, then solidifies. loaded some and looked inside the cases..clean as can be! if one gets baked in cow and loads this case ....? anybody seen this before? anybody used shot buffer for this purpose? any negatives using it? i like what i saw. thanks.

 

[johnmyers]

Hydro forming has worked well for me and 4 of the guys I have done some for