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6 Dasher False Shoulder Setting Technique?

I started reading this thread because I have my first dasher in the works and I need to gain some knowledge.

Now to get back on topic I have a question.

Do you guy's using the false shoulder using say a .284 expander have any issues running the neck up into a .267 or .268 bushing?

I am assuming that it may cause the mushrooming affect,, no big deal just work things until you can feel the case good while closing the bolt.
Never mind

I went to the beginning of this long thread and see a .257 or .264 would work. LOL just chamfer and debur good.
 
How would you turn a 6 BRX Crone 30º into a 6 Dasher 40º without moving the shoulder?

You insist you are moving the shoulder when you form a case, again, the shoulder of the case does not move and the shoulder that is formed is not the same shoulder you started with.

If you were able to move a shoulder forward when forming the case would come apart between the case head and case body. I have ask many times for a reloader/case former to prove he can move the shoulder back and or forward and I ask if anyone had a clue as to how he would go about proving he can explain how it is possible. Reloaders assume the shoulder is moving, I can shorten a case from the shoulder to the case head, the shoulder I finish with is not the same shoulder I started with.

F. Guffey
 
ee you play with semantics. You most certainly can change the location of the shoulder in relation to the case head. You can change that location in either direction. Now what you can't do is move the brass that is creating the existing shoulder. That old shoulder will either become case wall or neck. And the new shoulder will be created out of case wall or neck. But reality is none of this matters except in your silly games

I do not bump my shoulders back .002", my cases do not have head space. I have always thought it silly of reloaders to claim they can bump the shoulder back, I have insisted the shoulder can not be moved back or bump back with a die that has full length body support. If you can not move the shoulder back am I supposed to know what you are talking about. Again, if the shoulder does not move how can you prove it. I have said this confusion has been going on for years and if the first person not assumed the shoulder was moving we would not be having this conversation. Silly? Case head space, that is silly, I off set the length of the chamber with the length of the case from the shoulder to the case head, again, my cases do not have head space.

F. Guffey
 
The shoulder moves exactly like a wave moves. We have explained to everyone that counts. Take a hint. Keep butting that stump and we will keep watching you.

You insist you are moving the shoulder when you form a case, again, the shoulder of the case does not move and the shoulder that is formed is not the same shoulder you started with.

If you were able to move a shoulder forward when forming the case would come apart between the case head and case body. I have ask many times for a reloader/case former to prove he can move the shoulder back and or forward and I ask if anyone had a clue as to how he would go about proving he can explain how it is possible. Reloaders assume the shoulder is moving, I can shorten a case from the shoulder to the case head, the shoulder I finish with is not the same shoulder I started with.

F. Guffey
 
You insist you are moving the shoulder when you form a case, again, the shoulder of the case does not move and the shoulder that is formed is not the same shoulder you started with.....


Regardless @fguffey refusal to reply to proof and regardless of how he tries to mislead the forum, here again is just one example that shoulders do move:


Example3.png


Not only did the shoulder move in position a 0.100", as clearly seen by the case marks, it also moved in shoulder angle <> from 30-degrees to 40-degrees.

@fguffey often states: "I am the only one".... and I suggest to let him be just that !.! :eek:
Donovan
 
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Anyone with half a brain would recognize that you will never ever change one single mind with your monologues to yourself. You don't offset anything all you do is move your shoulders.

I do not bump my shoulders back .002", my cases do not have head space. I have always thought it silly of reloaders to claim they can bump the shoulder back, I have insisted the shoulder can not be moved back or bump back with a die that has full length body support. If you can not move the shoulder back am I supposed to know what you are talking about. Again, if the shoulder does not move how can you prove it. I have said this confusion has been going on for years and if the first person not assumed the shoulder was moving we would not be having this conversation. Silly? Case head space, that is silly, I off set the length of the chamber with the length of the case from the shoulder to the case head, again, my cases do not have head space.

F. Guffey
 
Are you just implying that the bump die just reforms the shoulder and the brass becomes longer?

Bump die? That is one of those methods/techniques I have asked about; if the die has full case length support how is it possible to move the shoulder back? The answer is: It can not be done but reloaders fell for it hook line and sinker when the die was called a body die. The body die? is not new, again I have used the 338/06 die for sizing 8mm57 cases without sizing the neck, I have I have used 8mm57 FL dies to size the shoulder/body of a 30/06 case before Redding started making/selling loose neck/bushing dies.

It is not my fault reloaders do not understand what is happening to the case when the trigger is pulled. I am waiting for one of them to 'start an experiment' to determine if the shoulder moves; one more time, if the shoulder moves when the trigger is pulled expect case head separation. Again, I have chambered cases in one of my rifles with .127" clearance between the shoulder of the case and shoulder of the chamber and then pulled the trigger. When the case was ejected the case did not stretch between the case head and case body and the shoulder did not move. HOW DO I KNOW THAT IS WHAT HAPPENED? I ejected a case with a very short neck, one more time; had the shoulder moved forward the neck length would not have changed in length.

F. Guffey
 
Had the shoulder not moved the neck would have remained the same length- but the shoulder did move and you claimed it didn't.

Why do you keep on harping about body support? It is common knowledge all across the planet that chamber drawings are longer than cartridge drawings. Therefore a case fire formed in most chambers is longer than a unfired case and a body die and a FL die are both able to push the shoulder back. Everyone admits that is the truth except you.

Bump die? That is one of those methods/techniques I have asked about; if the die has full case length support how is it possible to move the shoulder back? The answer is: It can not be done but reloaders fell for it hook line and sinker when the die was called a body die. The body die? is not new, again I have used the 338/06 die for sizing 8mm57 cases without sizing the neck, I have I have used 8mm57 FL dies to size the shoulder/body of a 30/06 case before Redding started making/selling loose neck/bushing dies.

It is not my fault reloaders do not understand what is happening to the case when the trigger is pulled. I am waiting for one of them to 'start an experiment' to determine if the shoulder moves; one more time, if the shoulder moves when the trigger is pulled expect case head separation. Again, I have chambered cases in one of my rifles with .127" clearance between the shoulder of the case and shoulder of the chamber and then pulled the trigger. When the case was ejected the case did not stretch between the case head and case body and the shoulder did not move. HOW DO I KNOW THAT IS WHAT HAPPENED? I ejected a case with a very short neck, one more time; had the shoulder moved forward the neck length would not have changed in length.

F. Guffey
 
I want to know when the recital is? You guys are working overtime trying to teach a pig to sing LOL!
 
I used to think guffey's ramblings were funny.

But to watch him continue his baseless argument in front of irrefutable evidence shows the evidence of a damaged mind.

Be sorry for him. He must have dementia. His family should keep him off the internet.
 
You insist you are moving the shoulder when you form a case, again, the shoulder of the case does not move and the shoulder that is formed is not the same shoulder you started with.

If you were able to move a shoulder forward when forming the case would come apart between the case head and case body. I have ask many times for a reloader/case former to prove he can move the shoulder back and or forward and I ask if anyone had a clue as to how he would go about proving he can explain how it is possible. Reloaders assume the shoulder is moving, I can shorten a case from the shoulder to the case head, the shoulder I finish with is not the same shoulder I started with.

F. Guffey


The only thing I am insisting Mr. Guffey, is answer the question correctly below as requested previously.

" How would you turn a 6 BRX Crone 30º into a 6 Dasher 40º without moving the shoulder?"

It doesn't matter how I would accomplish the task. It matters to me how you would accomplish the task.

Please elaborate as requested.

DJ

DJ's Brass Service
205-461-4680
 
OK, here it is.

bushing-bump-category.jpg

Bushing Bump Neck
Bench Rest® Sizing Dies


The Bushing Bump Neck Sizing Die brings you an advanced precision level by allowing you to precisely control the amount of neck sizing tension in your reloaded cartridge brass. This die improves accuracy and prolongs case life because the neck is sized down as little as necessary while still “bumping” the shoulder of the case to maintain overall case concentricity.

  • Sizes the case neck and shoulder to set headspace and deprimes
 
The only thing I am insisting Mr. Guffey, is answer the question correctly below as requested previously.

" How would you turn a 6 BRX Crone 30º into a 6 Dasher 40º without moving the shoulder?"

It doesn't matter how I would accomplish the task. It matters to me how you would accomplish the task.

Please elaborate as requested.

DJ

DJ's Brass Service
205-461-4680


Still waiting on my requested response on the above question Mr. Guffey.

DJ
 
Bump die? That is one of those methods/techniques I have asked about; if the die has full case length support how is it possible to move the shoulder back? The answer is: It can not be done but reloaders fell for it hook line and sinker when the die was called a body die. The body die? is not new, again I have used the 338/06 die for sizing 8mm57 cases without sizing the neck, I have I have used 8mm57 FL dies to size the shoulder/body of a 30/06 case before Redding started making/selling loose neck/bushing dies.

It is not my fault reloaders do not understand what is happening to the case when the trigger is pulled. I am waiting for one of them to 'start an experiment' to determine if the shoulder moves; one more time, if the shoulder moves when the trigger is pulled expect case head separation. Again, I have chambered cases in one of my rifles with .127" clearance between the shoulder of the case and shoulder of the chamber and then pulled the trigger. When the case was ejected the case did not stretch between the case head and case body and the shoulder did not move. HOW DO I KNOW THAT IS WHAT HAPPENED? I ejected a case with a very short neck, one more time; had the shoulder moved forward the neck length would not have changed in length.

F. Guffey
download (1).jpgthe man in the glass cage
 
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Bump die? That is one of those methods/techniques I have asked about; if the die has full case length support how is it possible to move the shoulder back? The answer is: It can not be done but reloaders fell for it hook line and sinker when the die was called a body die. The body die? is not new, again I have used the 338/06 die for sizing 8mm57 cases without sizing the neck, I have I have used 8mm57 FL dies to size the shoulder/body of a 30/06 case before Redding started making/selling loose neck/bushing dies.

It is not my fault reloaders do not understand what is happening to the case when the trigger is pulled. I am waiting for one of them to 'start an experiment' to determine if the shoulder moves; one more time, if the shoulder moves when the trigger is pulled expect case head separation. Again, I have chambered cases in one of my rifles with .127" clearance between the shoulder of the case and shoulder of the chamber and then pulled the trigger. When the case was ejected the case did not stretch between the case head and case body and the shoulder did not move. HOW DO I KNOW THAT IS WHAT HAPPENED? I ejected a case with a very short neck, one more time; had the shoulder moved forward the neck length would not have changed in length.

F. Guffey
th[7].jpgeven the goat screems
 
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Richard Cody thanks for making the effort; but that is not what happens. Before the shoulder on the fired case makes contact with the shoulder in the die the shoulder moves forward when the case body is sized. It is assumed the shoulder is moved back when the shoulder of the case contacts the shoulder of the die, it doesn't.

For all of you reloading/case forming geniuses it should be simple enough; prove you can move the shoulder back, prove you can bump the shoulder back and then there is that part I claim: I claim it is impossible to move the shoulder back with a die that has full body support. And then there are all of the reloaders that clam they are case formers: How can they claim to be case formers when they do not know or understand what happens when the case is formed. For years and years I have claimed I form cases, I claimed I formed LC 30/06 match cases to 308 W for bench rest rifles because the owners of the bench rest rifles were claiming the necks were too loose in the chamber. I did not have to ask about accuracy. When I formed the 30/06 LC Match cases to 308 W I tighten the neck of the 308 W .006". HOW? The 30/06 shoulder did not move back, part f the 30/06 case body became part of the shoulder of the 308 W and part of the shoulder became part of the neck.

It is possible to shorten a case from the shoulder to the case head, it is a mistake to assume the shoulder moves back; the shoulder on the sized case is not the same shoulder the reloader started with, again, part of the old shoulder becomes part of the of the neck and for those that can keep up part of the case body became part of the new shoulder. This is not the first time you have read this but you will have to consider there is truth in it.

One more time, prove you can move the shoulder back with a full length sizing die that has full length case body support. Riddle? I say you can not move the shoulder back, I say you can not bump the shoulder, you insist you can; and I ask HOW? Again, I can shorten a case from the shoulder to the case head, I can not move the shoulder back because the shoulder on the sized case is not the same shoulder I started with. And then there are artifacts, I accused an eBay seller of forming 8mm57 cases from 30/06 surplus blank cases, because of artifacts on the formed cases I knew he was using blanks. I thought that was something the buyer should know.

Again, there was this silly story about the firing pin driving the primer, bullet, case and powder forward to the shoulder of the chamber before busting the primer, I could say think about that but suggesting someone think about it has never worked before. If the case was driven forward to the shoulder of the chamber how would I prove it? If the case was not driven forward how would I prove it? I say 'how could I prove it' because I do not believe reloaders understand the question.

F. Guffey

"Not one of us, is smart as all of us"

Take the word "I" out of your vocabulary, and you couldn't complete many sentences' or any paragraphs.

This site is not about you. So sorry Guffey, your not the only fish in the sea.

DJ
 
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