6 Dasher False Shoulder Setting Technique?

[SheepDog]

Yep! that will get you a laugh as you get the ticket!

 

[fguffey]

I do not expect answers but I was thinking someone on this forum would have an ideal, and then there is a very remote chance someone would say something like "I have never given it a thought but I have always assumed the shoulder moved".

S. Sheldon, Is that the best you can do, if you do not know or "I have never given it a thought but I have always assumed the shoulder moved"?? I did not expect you to make a turn into the dirt but I knew you were not going to say "I do not know" and as soon as you jumped into the fast lane I suspected you would run out of gas.

F. Guffey

 

[fguffey]

as soon as you jumped into the fast lane I suspected you would run out of gas.

Now that is funny

Yep! that will get you a laugh as you get the ticket!

Not always; I was stopped in Missouri for speeding, The officer asked me how fast I was driving so I said 95MPH. He then wanted to know why I was driving 95MPH so I explained to him I was doing 95 because I couldn't do 100. If he could have kept a straight face I would have gotten a ticket.

F. Guffey

 

[Sheldon N]

as soon as you jumped into the fast lane I suspected you would run out of gas.

Now that is funny
F. Guffey

Did you just quote yourself then give yourself a high five?

 

[dmoran]

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[6MMsteve]

 

[Phil]

Thanks for the Friday morning chuckles guy`s............

 

[dedogs]

Did you just quote yourself then give yourself a high five?

NOW THAT THERE IS FUNNY!! We should use this as a reply to all of Guffey's posts. dedogs

 

[Fred B.]

Reloaders have an infatuation with moving the shoulder back, they use the 'bump the shoulder back' and I have insisted moving the shoulder back is impossible. I can shorten the distance between the shoulder of the case and case head, I can not do it with a die that has case body support. And then we go back to moving the shoulder; does the shoulder move? And then there is "I fired the case and the shoulder moved forward and again I ask; did the shoulder move?

I do not expect answers but I was thinking someone on this forum would have an ideal, and then there is a very remote chance someone would say something like "I have never given it a thought but I have always assumed the shoulder moved".

F. Guffey

I have formed few hundreds 308 Palma to 6.5 Creedmoor and can tell you
YES, THE SHOULDER MOVES. It is not too hard to understand the dynamics of brass under pressure.
Or maybe it's an illusion, who cares if it works.

 

[fguffey]

Or maybe it's an illusion, who cares if it works.

Fred B., Fred, it's OK, it is not about 'who cares', it is about those that understand what happens to the case when the trigger is pulled. For years reloaders repeated a silly saying that started with the firing pin hitting the primer with no mention of the weight of the case, bullet and powder. The silly saying said the firing pin drove all of that weight to the front of the chamber before the primer was busted. And I said I have killer firing pins, I said I have firing pins that bust the primer before the case, bullet and powder moved.

And then I ask someone to prove the shoulder moves back and I ask someone to prove they can bump the shoulder back. If there is a reloader on this forum that knows he is not talking, the only responses I get are from the snarky responders. I guess they are like you, they do not know and do not want to know.

maybe it's an illusion

No, it is about trying to get a rleoader to think about it and this stuff is not for everyone. I say it is impossible to move the shoulder on a case (or bump ) back with a die that has full case body support; reloaders have too much time and verbiage tied up/invested in selling the ideal they can move the shoulder back, they can shorten the distance from the shoulder to the case head, they can not move the shoulder back..

I have fired cases that were ejected with very short necks, before pulling the trigger there was nothing short about the necks; Had the case been driven forward with the impact of the firing pin the length of the neck would not have shortened.

F. Guffey

 

[fguffey]

I have formed few hundreds 308 Palma to 6.5 Creedmoor and can tell you
YES, THE SHOULDER MOVES.

You can tell all of the reloaders on this forum the shoulder moves; with one exception, there is one reloaders on this forum that knows the shoulder does not move. And then you start out with claiming to be a case former. If when I form cases I move the shoulder I would be rendering the cases scrap. When moving the shoulder on a case I find it impossible unless I am using a die without case body support, When moving the shoulder with a die that does not have case body support I create bellows below the shoulder of the case; the process turns the case into something that looks like an accordion. When the case body is supported the bellows/accordion does not form.

F. Guffey

 

[fguffey]

who cares if it works.

Back to 'who cares'; I do, to understand case head separation a reloader needs to understand what happens to the shoulder of the case when fired. The last thing I want is the firing pin driving my cases forward before busting the primer. I am the fan of the shoulder not moving and if it does I do not want it to move very far and then there is a lot of confusion about what direction it moves. I off set the length of the chamber with the length of the case from the shoulder to the case head, I do not want my cases to do a lot of excessive traveling. .

F. Guffey

 

[Fred B.]

I guess they are like you, they do not know and do not want to know.
F. Guffey

Please enlighten me and explain how a 308 brass gets to 6.5 Creedmoor?
Is it the shoulder moving down or the base moving up?

 

[Richard Coody]

View attachment 1015710
Please enlighten me and explain how a 308 brass gets to 6.5 Creedmoor?
Is it the shoulder moving down or the base moving up?

Actually neither. You are forming a new shoulder from the case wall. The brass above the new shoulder becomes either part of the shoulder or neck. That is why trimming and neck turning are necessary.

When we bump a shoulder back, now we are talking tiny measurements here 1 or 2 thousandth, part of what became fired brass neck becomes shoulder and part of what became case wall upon firing goes back to being shoulder. Opposite when fired.

 

[Delfuego]

Wasn't this thread about false-shoulder dasher forming?

 

[KMart]

Actually neither. You are forming a new shoulder from the case wall. The brass above the new shoulder becomes either part of the shoulder or neck. That is why trimming and neck turning are necessary.

When we bump a shoulder back, now we are talking tiny measurements here 1 or 2 thousandth, part of what became fired brass neck becomes shoulder and part of what became case wall upon firing goes back to being shoulder. Opposite when fired.

I agree with you. It is all about the presentation and interpretation.
I was on a jury once where a car was put up for collateral for a drug deal. The defense said that it was just a 60 year old car. The prosecution described it as a 1929 Rolls-Royce show car

 

[Richard Coody]

I agree with you. It is all about the presentation and interpretation.
I was on a jury once where a car was put up for collateral for a drug deal. The defense said that it was just a 60 year old car. The prosecution described it as a 1929 Rolls-Royce show car

Guffey talks in riddles. I guess it is fun for him. Quite entertaining to me. Problem is he really confuses the new guys.

 

[Fred B.]

 

[swd]

I do not want my cases to do a lot of excessive traveling. .

F. Guffey

My cases travel about 300 miles round trip once a month, is that too much?

 

[Fred B.]

My cases travel about 300 miles round trip once a month, is that too much?

Depends on the direction of travel, velocity and coordinates.