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6 Creed AR10 issues

I recently built a 6 Creed gas gun and I am having the worst time getting the gun sorted. First barrel I got was short chambered and could only chamber one load. On to a new barrel and now I can't get it to pick up the next round or the bolt to hold open on an empty mag. I have a Superlative Arms gas block on it and tried to tune it with single clicks (~1/4 turns) for the adjustment but it still wouldn't function correctly. It goes from not picking the round up to a FTE in one adjustment once the brass starts to pile up at my 4 o'clock. If anyone has a clue on whats wrong, with me or the gun, please let me know.

Build parts:
Aero upper, lower and handguard and parts minus trigger
Geissele SD-C SUPER DYNAMIC COMBAT TRIGGER
Superlative Arms gas block
Odin Works 22" barrel with Rifle+2" gas length

I also already weighed my buffer and its 5.4 oz
 
Maybe the gas block is not centered on the gas port hole. If it's not it will be undergassed no matter how open the block is.
 
Hornady Black 105gr, I’ve seen some guys on other sites saying that they had issues with adjustable blocks and +2 gas systems so I might scavenge a non-adjustable block from another rifle and see if that fixes it.

If anyone has any other ideas on what might be my issue, I’d love to hear them!
 
The aero bolt has overly strong springs for the extractor because originally the dpms gas port for 308 was too big.
Because you have an adjustable gas block you dont need these. This is why they will have a tough time going into battery. I think this also contributes to why ar308s dont cycle completely.
The spring and o ring make the extractor so tight, the extractor can hardly snap over the case head. I think the replacement springs I got were sprinco. About 5 bucks.
I also prefer a rifle length buffer and spring over a carbine one. Additionally, some mags are better than others. Smooth out the inside of the feed lips if necessary.
 
Well I got a chance to swap to a non-adjustable gas block and it still wont cycle. I’ve tried 3 different mags from different manufacturers and checked to make sure the block is centered over the port. I don’t believe that it’s a lower issue because it ran fine with the first barrel, minus the fact that the bullets were jamming into the lands w/ factory ammo. Should I try and have the gas port opened up?
 
Ahh, welcome to the large format ARs. Just in case no-one told you, there aren't "standards" where all parts are interchangeable.

Short chambering aside; let me focus on your question first and make sure I understand it.

1. Can't get it to lock open on empty mag
2. Adjustable gas block seems very sensitive (can't pick up round to FTE in one adjustment "click")

Does that summarize the problems you'd like help with?

From the bit I read, I'm going to have several more questions for you; however, #2 can be a problem from #1. And yes the gas block may be the issue on a +2" gas port barrel, but I see no reason to throw money at it like it's a boat, so let's check the more likely items first.


#1. Lock open on empty mag. There are a LOT of mag problems with the large platform ARs. Question:. Dry and unloaded; slap an empty mag into your rifle and make sure it locks (do this for all your mags to check them). Pull charging handle back to lock bolt open. No touching the bolt catch button; let the mag alone operate the bolt catch.
Each magazine should raise the catch up enough to contact the bolt in front of a lug. (Pic would be great here, I'll grab one if you need it). If it catches the bolt on the bolt carrier, or misses the bolt; then the problem points away from the gas system and back toward the mag/catch area.

#2. While investigating #1, my next question is based on the adjustable gas block; are you saying that at no setting will brass eject? I'm slightly confused about the 4o'clock mentioned. If that setting is ejecting your brass, is that setting full open?

-Mac
 
Last edited:
@mac86951
Went ahead and verified that all my mags would lock the bolt back, figured this wasn’t the issue since they run fin in other guns I have access too.

#2 My issue was that with the adjustable block it would eject the spent case to about my 4 o’clock, but still would not pick up the next round or lock back on an empty mag.

I have put a non-adjustable block on because I was hearing from other sites that +2” gas sometimes doesn’t like adjustable blocks. However this has not fixed my issue, it now stove pipes if there is another round in the mag. It still ejects on an empty mag but it also still doesn’t lock open after firing.


@carlsbad
Mad sure of that, I’m a rookie to the large frame AR world but I’m not that new :)
 
@Dusty Stevens
I have been looking but I haven’t been able to find a solid answer to that, not much info on the topic of 6 Creedmoor AR’s. Should I be looking for 6.5 Creed info because it is probably a bit more available?
 
@mac86951
Went ahead and verified that all my mags would lock the bolt back, figured this wasn’t the issue since they run fin in other guns I have access too.

#2 My issue was that with the adjustable block it would eject the spent case to about my 4 o’clock, but still would not pick up the next round or lock back on an empty mag.

I have put a non-adjustable block on because I was hearing from other sites that +2” gas sometimes doesn’t like adjustable blocks. However this has not fixed my issue, it now stove pipes if there is another round in the mag. It still ejects on an empty mag but it also still doesn’t lock open after firing.


@carlsbad
Mad sure of that, I’m a rookie to the large frame AR world but I’m not that new :)

Good that the mags lock back, that eliminates the most often overlooked issue of bolt catch problems.

Bolt carrier and gas to rings are next. My 6.5 Creed had a very poorly staked gas key that loosened enough for cycling problems. I didn't know it until I put a wrench in the screws (I think 55-58in lbs is the torque-spec) and lots of info online how to re-stake if needed. The indication I've learned to look for is excessive powder residue on bolt carrier which is hard to describe. Be sure to check though. Gas rings as well. Sounds like you have some experience. Same way you check for gas ring wear on the 15 platform. If you're the least bit curious, just put a thin costing of clp on them and see if it runs better for a few shots.

Check the bottom of your bolt carrier. Some lowers are poorly drilled in that the FCG may be located closer to the bolt and may be dragging on the bottom of the bolt carrier. Light hammer drag marks should be ok; bolt catch drag marks would be bad.

Since you've mentioned your brass like up at 4'oclock, but doesn't pick up the next round; I doubt any big issue, but the small things add up. Check the above items.

In order to set an adjustable gas block (same for 10 and 15); load one round into a mag and fire. Open gas block until bolt locks back (empty mag). What you've described above sounds as though you need to open the gas block one or two more clicks.

If your gas block is already full open; please remove it and look at your gas port in barrel and the gas port in the block. You'll see powder residue remarking the alignment. Most common items: bad seal at the barrel (gas block not tight, or poor fit) or poor alignment of gas port. Usually that's either a canted block, or a barrel cut for no delta ring and a gas block cut for a delta ring (axial misalignment). I'm guessing this is a set-screw gas block, does your barrel have detents drilled for the block?

Finally; I better ask since diagnosing remotely, you do have a +2" gas tube right? I'm sorry I have to ask, but I'm sure you understand the detailed diagnosis that can happen when the problem is really far simpler.

Figure out what gas block setting gets you empty mag lock back consistently. Try all your mags again.

Next possibility; Adjustable gas blocks with detented "clicks" are not all equal. Alignment may be the issue, you did include a "normal" gas block in your testing; also possible that your barrel has a +2" port drilled with carbine port size. When you you take the havegas block off, do a numbered drill bit set? Use the shanks and see which drill number fits your gas port. #42 / #43 would be what I expect.

Big picture; gas comes from firing. A direct impingement system needs a certain amount of pressure and volume. Either your gas system is "leaking" somewhere; some part of the system needs excessive force; or not enough gas is bleeding off at the port.

Ammo could also be an issue. In specific the dwell time. Most +2" barrels are 24" or more in length. A 22" may be marginal for the 6creed. Not much you'd want to do to slow the bullet down to increase dwell time, but a slower powder would increase the port pressure. A muzzle break, a supressor, and I've heard that even a bloop tube can affect the port pressure.
 
I use an .092" gas port on my 6-6.5 x 47 and 6-6.5 Creed AR-10 barrels with no issues.

This is at standard rifle length gas tube. Anything less, might cause cycling issues.

At +2" gas tube length, I would go up to .100" - .110" diameter.
 

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Just took the rifle to a local gunsmith, he checked everything out and found two issues. The first was that the gas port was .072” and the next was that it was catching when the bolt was unlocking. He opened up the gas port to .075, which got the rifle to eject and pick up the next round but still would not lock back on an empty mag. He said that he wants to check and see what’s holding the bolt up before he opens a gas port anymore.
 
Just took the rifle to a local gunsmith, he checked everything out and found two issues. The first was that the gas port was .072” and the next was that it was catching when the bolt was unlocking. He opened up the gas port to .075, which got the rifle to eject and pick up the next round but still would not lock back on an empty mag. He said that he wants to check and see what’s holding the bolt up before he opens a gas port anymore.

Sweet! Glad to know I was on the right path.

It'll be the trigger hammer; bolt catch, or buffer retention device.

-Mac
 
Take the bolt out of the carrier and just slide the carrier back and forth in the action. Sometimes the gas tube needs tweaking l/r or u/d. Use a flat blade screwdriver twisting alongside to tweak l/r and an open ended wrench works well to lever up the tube and any dull tool and the palm of your hand to bend down. There should be no resistance at all when the carrier goes fully forward or retracts.

May not be an issue but it does add unnecessary resistance to the cycle.
 

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