I have a question about case length. Many of my 6 br cases are stretching out to 1.580 or so against an advertised OAL case length of 1.560....they chamber fine and actually my bullets seat kinda shallow telling me my chamber is a bit long anyway....the long ones chamber fine in the action ....should i still trim them or leave them be??
6 br case length
- Thread starter bam1015
- Start date
bam1015: 1.580" is really long. Just a thought: Are you sure you're not over-sizing the brass/ pushing the shoulders back excessively? Just askin, cause I've never had my 6BR cases stretch even close to that length. My chambering reamers have chamber lengths of 1.570", as verified on the reamer drawings.
You did not say if it's a factory or custom chambering. If it's factory, like Savage, then I would expect at least a little longer than 1.570", but more than 1.580" is really a "stretch".
If I were you, I would take one dedicated case & continue to load it normally, letting it stretch, but try to chamber it after each FL sizing, and you will reach a point where the bolt will be harder to close ( shows you're just touching the forward end of the chamber), subtract about .005" from that length & keep it as a reference. Then I would use .010" less than that dimension as my "standard".
The other way would be to use the Sinclair chamber over-all-length gauge with a modified case shortened the recommended .100".
Or, you could just trim them all to a uniform 1.560". Your choice.
But, getting back to the reason for your long measurement: Might sound like a stupid question, but, are you knocking out the spent primer before you take your measurement? Primers have been known to back out enough to give a false length.
You did not say if it's a factory or custom chambering. If it's factory, like Savage, then I would expect at least a little longer than 1.570", but more than 1.580" is really a "stretch".
If I were you, I would take one dedicated case & continue to load it normally, letting it stretch, but try to chamber it after each FL sizing, and you will reach a point where the bolt will be harder to close ( shows you're just touching the forward end of the chamber), subtract about .005" from that length & keep it as a reference. Then I would use .010" less than that dimension as my "standard".
The other way would be to use the Sinclair chamber over-all-length gauge with a modified case shortened the recommended .100".
Or, you could just trim them all to a uniform 1.560". Your choice.
But, getting back to the reason for your long measurement: Might sound like a stupid question, but, are you knocking out the spent primer before you take your measurement? Primers have been known to back out enough to give a false length.
yes i am knocking out the primer before measuring....not sure about over sizing ? do they normally grow a bit when you FL size ? i just did one that was 1.65 before and 1.69 after ,is this normal....funny thing is i bought 100 norma 1x times fired brass have fired about half 2x and the other 3x and i have 30 that measure in the 1.56s about the same measure in the 1.57s and the reat in the 1.58s.....i should have kept better track of them....i am going to start another post about 6br remington brass...
JohnMill
Gold $$ Contributor
Hope I don't hurt anyones feelings BUT, all this if might could be stuff is BS. Get a chamber length gauge from sinclair and sacrfice a case to it. It is a little leaded steel slug that fits into a shortened case. It comes in 2 sizes, tight neck and no turn. You can then measure your chamber exactly. A rifle is a precise machine that contains 50-60kpsi a few inches from your face and you should act accordingly.
RANT OFF.
Y'all have a nice day
John
RANT OFF.
Y'all have a nice day
John
John: I agree that the actual chamber length should be determined, but the cause(s) of the overly long brass remains. A 6BR case that is being properly sized should never stretch to an O.A.L. of 1.580".
Cases that are being over-sized though by pushing back the shoulders excessively would explain the stretching.
I have Lapua 6BR brass that has 35 to 40 loadings and have never had to trim more than twice over those number of loadings, and even at that, only about .003" was removed to maintain my trim length of 1.560" for my measured chambers, ( 1.570"), measured with the Sinclair gauge, for those chambers that I do not have a reamer drawing for.
bam1015: If you bought that brass used, you have no way of guaranteing that it was all uniformally fired 1 time each. Could some have been fired more than once, maybe some with hotter loads than others?
You should also have the Stoney Point/ Hornady chamber O.A.L. gauge. Take an as fired headspace length then be sure your length after FL sizing is not more than .002" or .003" shorter. Anything more than that and you are pushing the shoulders back too much, causing them to stretch a lot more than normal.
Cases that are being over-sized though by pushing back the shoulders excessively would explain the stretching.
I have Lapua 6BR brass that has 35 to 40 loadings and have never had to trim more than twice over those number of loadings, and even at that, only about .003" was removed to maintain my trim length of 1.560" for my measured chambers, ( 1.570"), measured with the Sinclair gauge, for those chambers that I do not have a reamer drawing for.
bam1015: If you bought that brass used, you have no way of guaranteing that it was all uniformally fired 1 time each. Could some have been fired more than once, maybe some with hotter loads than others?
You should also have the Stoney Point/ Hornady chamber O.A.L. gauge. Take an as fired headspace length then be sure your length after FL sizing is not more than .002" or .003" shorter. Anything more than that and you are pushing the shoulders back too much, causing them to stretch a lot more than normal.
Ok i culled out 30 cases that are in the 1.56s and reloading them tonight to fire tomorrow i will pay clase attention to the length after firing....i aggree i need to measure the chamber but i dont have the necessary tools...yrt...and no one near me i trust...needless to say my trust in the one that re reamed it is suspect also....i could trim some long ones back but alas the trimmer is still on the want list......shoulda bought one at the show today..... As for excessive shoulder pushback? how would i be doing that? im using Redding FL dies and i believe im setting them up correctly so what would i be doing wrong?Thanks for ALL the info
If the bolt flops down on an empty case, you have pushed the shoulder back too far, creating excessive headspace. You should raise the die about 3/4th turn. When you feel very slight resistance in closing the bolt, headspace is correct. To do this, move the die down about 1/16 and try again repeatedly until you feel the resistance, and stop there.
Its better to trim a little too short than let cases get too long. You may find a small carbon ring forward of the case mouth, but this can be removed.
Its better to trim a little too short than let cases get too long. You may find a small carbon ring forward of the case mouth, but this can be removed.
bam1015: The above suggestions are right on! If the case is properly sized, you should feel a little resistance when closing the bolt. Be sure to keep the bolt lugs lubed. I include the bolt lug lubing as a regular part of barrel cleaning, & I apply a fresh coat of bolt grease ( just a very small amount) to each contact surface of the lugs.
The standard adjustment directions that are included with a FL sizing die, about screwing the die body down 'til it touches the shellholder then backing off one turn ( for example), is worthless, non-information. The proper way to do it is by using the S.P/Hornady chamber O.A.L. gauge, or the "feel" method when closing the bolt.
The standard adjustment directions that are included with a FL sizing die, about screwing the die body down 'til it touches the shellholder then backing off one turn ( for example), is worthless, non-information. The proper way to do it is by using the S.P/Hornady chamber O.A.L. gauge, or the "feel" method when closing the bolt.
bozo699
Gold $$ Contributor
Bam,bam1015 said:
Yes that is normal when you are not bumping the shoulders back, since you don't have any tools do as tenring suggested, Die makers should be sued for there ridiculous instructions they come with! Put your F/L die in the press, run the handle down so the shell holder is at the top of the stroke, screw the die in until it touches the shell holder, raise handle back to it's home position and then back the die out one full turn, put a lubed case in the shell holder and run it up full stroke you will probably feel no resistance, keep screwing the die in about 1/16th of a turn at a time intil you feel a little resistance at the last little bit of the stroke, your there or just about there, then follow tenrings advice about chambering that case, remember to wipe all the lube off before putting it in your chamber, if the bolt doesn't fall or close half way without resistance then screw die in another 16th and continue until it does, tighten the die down finger tight and lock the ring to the die, now when done put that shell holder in you die box and it will only be used for that die from now on and go buy another one for other rifles and uses, also never tighten the die down with pliers or wrench or you will be way over sizing, hand tight is good enough because that's where it was set at, also as the brass work hardens you will have to readjust the die for shoulder bump but it will be minimal. Everybody's advice has been good sound advice but John Mills above the rest, you are going to need to buy some basic tools for sure and the chamber length gauge should be at the top of the list, hope this helps some.
Wayne.
bozo699
Gold $$ Contributor
I am slow at typing so by the time I hit send Frank already covered the die instructions but I didn't bother removing it from mine, also I don't advocate substituting the Hornaday oal tool that Frank suggested, I have the same tool and wouldn't be with out it, how ever until you order one you can remove the primer from say a pistol cartridge and of course the case your working on, place the pistol case mouth over the mouth of your case if the pistol mouth hits somewhere on the datum of the shoulder you can measure before measurement and write it down, size case and recheck measurement until you are about .001-.0015 bump and your there! Buy the tool though, there cheap!
Wayne.
Wayne.
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