6.8 Western introduction(Winchester)

[Tom3006]

That’s really cool.
The marketing will likely include the mythical powers that can only be harnessed by using a short action. We’ve all seen it before. Better accuracy, faster reloads, lighter rifle.

in my mind it fits a nitch between 6.5 PRC and 300 WSM. With factory ammo, bullet weights between the 6.8 Western and 300 WSM will be really close (150-180gr). 6.8W would likely have the BC advantage for wind and drop at some point. I’m assuming 300 WSM might start out faster (FPS).

Thanks and you're correct. I added the 6.5 PRC and 300 WSM and the 6.5 Western is pretty much right in between. Also the WSM does have higher muzzle velocity (see second graph)...

 

[sandwarrior]

Whatever the {cartridge} case is, the REALLY important thing is that they are going to use a TIGHT TWIST. Something people have been telling them for 50 years. Only to have a manufacturer (backed by several paid off gunwriters) that, "It would be stupid to use a tight twist...that affects accuracy in a bad way."

Personally, I'd like to see every class of cartridge out there get made in .270 with a tight twist. You'd probably see some real innovation.

 

[284winner]

Whatever the {cartridge} case is, the REALLY important thing is that they are going to use a TIGHT TWIST. Something people have been telling them for 50 years. Only to have a manufacturer (backed by several paid off gunwriters) that, "It would be stupid to use a tight twist...that affects accuracy in a bad way."

Personally, I'd like to see every class of cartridge out there get made in .270 with a tight twist. You'd probably see some real innovation.

Fast twist barrels provide great accuracy with light bullets more often than not. Can't say the same of a slow twist with heavies. Fast meaning 7&8 for the .277 is ideal.

 

[sandwarrior]

Fast twist barrels provide great accuracy with light bullets more often than not. Can't say the same of a slow twist with heavies. Fast meaning 7&8 for the .277 is ideal.

Slow twist with heavies don't provide ANY accuracy if they can't stabilize the bullet. LOVE to see some tight twists come out.. How the shooting public will take it is the question. I can't tell you how many people don't believe a tight twist with heavies is good.

A case in point is my family. My dad had a .257 Rob. (722) with a 1-12" twist when he was young. He sold it to his brother, who, of all dastardly things...wouldn't sell it back. Really Dad? Anyhow, later I plugged the barrel on an R700 .243. Rather than being upset about it, my dad was happy because he would just replace the barrel with a .257 barrel. That went okay, but didn't feed so well as the rails were angled for the .243 cartridge. So, he was always keeping an eye out to get his old rifle back. He then hears that the rifle went off to CO with one of his brother's grandsons.

This is where I got stupid. I was making good money back then and found a .257 Rob. 722 "Deluxe". It had the shorter barrel and a 1-10" twist. I gave that to my dad. He finds out the original is still in town with my other cousin, who has no kids. My dad trades the "Deluxe" to him as "it's 'not ackrate' it's got a 1-10" twist." Again, REALLY DAD? I shot the rifle to 1000 yds. using Berger 115's. My cousin tells me a couple years later he would never have traded if he knew he "Deluxe" had a 1-10" twist. "It's 'not as ackrate'." OMFG! "Have you shot the rifle" I asked? No. "That's just the truth though, " he said. "Everybody knows that."

My family is not about getting confused by facts. Myths and legends are MUCH easier to believe at face value with no investigation into the 'whys and why-nots.' I'm sure many families are like that.

 

[284winner]

Slow twist with heavies don't provide ANY accuracy if they can't stabilize the bullet. LOVE to see some tight twists come out.. How the shooting public will take it is the question. I can't tell you how many people don't believe a tight twist with heavies is good.

A case in point is my family. My dad had a .257 Rob. (722) with a 1-12" twist when he was young. He sold it to his brother, who, of all dastardly things...wouldn't sell it back. Really Dad? Anyhow, later I plugged the barrel on an R700 .243. Rather than being upset about it, my dad was happy because he would just replace the barrel with a .257 barrel. That went okay, but didn't feed so well as the rails were angled for the .243 cartridge. So, he was always keeping an eye out to get his old rifle back. He then hears that the rifle went off to CO with one of his brother's grandsons.

This is where I got stupid. I was making good money back then and found a .257 Rob. 722 "Deluxe". It had the shorter barrel and a 1-10" twist. I gave that to my dad. He finds out the original is still in town with my other cousin, who has no kids. My dad trades the "Deluxe" to him as "it's 'not ackrate' it's got a 1-10" twist." Again, REALLY DAD? I shot the rifle to 1000 yds. using Berger 115's. My cousin tells me a couple years later he would never have traded if he knew he "Deluxe" had a 1-10" twist. "It's 'not as ackrate'." OMFG! "Have you shot the rifle" I asked? No. "That's just the truth though, " he said. "Everybody knows that."

My family is not about getting confused by facts. Myths and legends are MUCH easier to believe at face value with no investigation into the 'whys and why-nots.' I'm sure many families are like that.

A fast twist with heavies Is Mandatory. Not just good. Should say with long bullets but generally the longer the bullet, the heavier the bullet. There is no down side to a faster barrel vs slower barrel unless someone is shooting light for caliber bullets ONLY. Then accuracy is best with custom fitted twist to bullet combinations. A 9 twist .224 barrel stabilizes 40-75s superbly for me in several rifles. Same with the .264/7.5T, .284/8T, .308/9&10T, .338/8&9T. They all shoot lighter bullets very well. I don't think the hunter/shooter buying a rifle in the 6.8 Western chambering will give barrel twist much thought. The offerings for that cartridge are all fairly heavy requiring that fast 7.5 twist barrel. If they offer lighter bullets for the 6.8W, they will still shoot very well in that barrel. Something that people never did get while trying to shoot long heavy bullets in a 10 twist .270 barrel.

 

[sbhooper]

Another exceedingly expensive firearm to shoot. Money pit.

 

[Terry]

Parent brass is WSM?

Looks like it.

 

[Terry]

I have ordered 6.5 CM, 6 CM, and 6.8 Western reamers in the last 6 weeks. People want them.

 

[Idaho-Lefty]

The Heavier Bullets ONLY, "down side" is,.. RECOIL !
I'd put, a 1-8 Twist on my .270 WSM and shoot 165 -170's,.. IF I "liked", MORE,.. recoil !
Love my .270 WSM,. "Lazer" at 3,150 - 3,200 FPS with,.. a 140 AccuBond, AS,. IS !
Enough Gun, for me ! Rather be, accurate than, start Flinching, again ! Had, a .338 Win Mag ( Note; HAD ! ).
And NO,.. I don't / WON'T, ever use, a Brake to Hunt with !
ONE Forgetful, "mistake" and your Ears will Ring,.. for,.. LIFE !
On the other Hand, it's NICE to see Winchester "wake up" and get back IN, the Business !
Love their StaBall Powder ! WISH, they'ed make some Freakin' Primers to,.. Light it off, tho !

 

[CJ6]

it's NICE to see Winchester "wake up" and get back IN, the Business !

I wish Winchester would put a 26" barrel on it....Browning does ..but not Winchester..A Big mistake in my opinion. Why hadicap the cartridge ?

 

[sandwarrior]

I wish Winchester would put a 26" barrel on it....Browning does ..but not Winchester..A Big mistake in my opinion. Why hadicap the cartridge ?

Marketing... I swear every good idea in the gun world is countered by some nerd wearing BCG's that has some kind of statistical data that compromises those ideas. But, but, but,... 24" is handier than 26". " The public likes shorter barrels." Etc. ad nauseum.

 

[CJ6]

Marketing... I swear every good idea in the gun world is countered by some nerd wearing BCG's that has some kind of statistical data that compromises those ideas. But, but, but,... 24" is handier than 26". " The public likes shorter barrels." Etc. ad nauseum.

I get it....But It's Winchesters NEW case......Why not capitalize it ? The bean counters will be the death of Winchester.....

 

[sandwarrior]

I get it....But It's Winchesters NEW case......Why not capitalize it ? The bean counters will be the death of Winchester.....

I know!

My point is they are sitting there in the board meeting and some nerd wearing BCG's stands up and says, "This is how we've always done it." Look how long it took to get tight twisted .22 and .24 cal barrels in off the shelf rifles... Decades!

The point about my cousin telling me the 1-10" twist isn't as 'Ackrate' as the 1-12" twist. Nevermind I shot the rifle to 1k. Not only is the BCG wearing bean counter killing it, the public is backing up the stupidity.

That is where marketing comes in. We do stuff for one way too long and everyone believes that's the only way to get it done. And the guy doing the survey?....and counting the beans? He 'markets' to the mass majority. Even though, that's not who his target audience is.

 

[CJ6]

That is where marketing comes in. We do stuff for one way too long and everyone believes that's the only way to get it done. And the guy doing the survey?....and counting the beans? He 'markets' to the mass majority. Even though, that's not who his target audience is.

I know all about marketing.... A longtime friend of ours has a PHD. in marketing....Yet he is the biggest sucker for all the hype.

 

[sandwarrior]

I know all about marketing.... A longtime friend of ours has a PHD. in marketing....Yet he is the biggest sucker for all the hype.

My wife only has a masters, but she also held the marketing manager position at a natural food co-op. They did about $8M a year. She points stuff out to me all the time about marketing and why, if I don't get a commercial, that I'm NOT the target audience. And, who is the target audience.

 

[284winner]

I wish Winchester would put a 26" barrel on it....Browning does ..but not Winchester..A Big mistake in my opinion. Why hadicap the cartridge ?

Give them time, it just came out

 

[TC260]

I get it....But It's Winchesters NEW case......Why not capitalize it ? The bean counters will be the death of Winchester.....

The shooting market is going through some changes. For decades velocity was king. It was all about squeezing an extra 50 fps to beat the competitors round in the magazine ads. These days shooters in general place a lot less emphasis on velocity. For many, the longer barrel is often seen as a negative, the compactness of a shorter barrel with a short action outweighs the velocity gain.

 

[sandwarrior]

The shooting market is going through some changes. For decades velocity was king. It was all about squeezing an extra 50 fps to beat the competitors round in the magazine ads. These days shooters in general place a lot less emphasis on velocity. For many, the longer barrel is often seen as a negative, the compactness of a shorter barrel with a short action outweighs the velocity gain.

Yeeessss... The point is, though, you don't need 'compact' in the long range world. This is the point he is making and I'm trying to explain.

True, it isn't AS MUCH about velocity. But, there is no need to throw potential velocity away with a short barrel. Part of the long barrel is making the cartridge efficient. Getting velocities with longer barrels in short cartridges. That's efficiency too. Shorter cartridges also allow high efficiency bullets to be stuffed in them in a standard action.

 

[284winner]

Yeeessss... The point is, though, you don't need 'compact' in the long range world. This is the point he is making and I'm trying to explain.

True, it isn't AS MUCH about velocity. But, there is no need to throw potential velocity away with a short barrel. Part of the long barrel is making the cartridge efficient. Getting velocities with longer barrels in short cartridges. That's efficiency too. Shorter cartridges also allow high efficiency bullets to be stuffed in them in a standard action.

Well stated. With ELR growing, no short barrels in that crowd. Most of my rifles tote 26"+ barrel lengths. My shorty's are my woods hunting rifles. All are short action non magnum Cartridges that perform well in short barrels. Matching barrel length with cartridge is the smart thing. I think today more than ever, all the shooting disciplines are packed with shooters. I don't believe shorter is more popular today. Seems to me the field is pretty level.

 

[tcmikey]

This is a little off topic. The above graphs show rounds of different energy and bore diameter. But just about everyone has the reputation of taking game.