6.5x47 Load development question

[Sebrock]

A little background - Im about to begin load development and have a few powders to chose from. Staball 6.5, H4350, N555, Accurate 4350, Norma 204 and Norma URP. I generally use Gordon's Reloading Tool to do a little pre-filtering (yes I realize a lot of this is theoretical but it has worked for me in the past and am as thorough as possible with my inputs). When developing for my 6.5 creedmoor, I found that powders with 95-99% fill ratio worked best and am now using this as a filter for the 6.5x47. When modeling out, Staball has a good fill ratio but models slow. N555, Accurate 4350, Norma 204 and URP are all 95-99% and showing speed in the high 2700's, low 2800's - so pretty much what Im looking for out of a 140g ELD-M.

On the other hand, H4350 shows great speed but has a 90% fill ratio and when I look at the Precision Rifle Blog's info on what competitors use, it points to Varget and a Berger 140g bullet. Varget models very similar to H4350 with an even lower fill ratio but folks were getting some ridiculously low SDs and ESs with it.

Here is my question - is my assumption that you need a 95-99% fill ratio wrong? Should I be looking at 90%-99%? In the past I have experienced greater ESs when crunching but I have never tried powders with lower fill ratios but always went with the assumption that you want the case as filled as possible.

Regardless I will find out in the real world but was hoping someone could give me some insight that has experience in this cartridge before I start wasting precious powder and thanks for reading through this long winded question.

 

[FeMan]

I have never found any golden rule about fill density. I can see where too low could create issues but anything in the 90's to low 100's is fair game for me.

I have three 6.5x47s and have always found H4350 to group the best with the 135 and 140 grain bullets. 5-shot groups under 1/4 moa have been readily attainable and some have tuned well under that. FWIW, my fill densities are 100% or very close.

 

[6ShotsOr5?]

Different brands of brass have different case capacities which could account for some people seeing different fill ratios.

 

[Sebrock]

I have never found any golden rule about fill density. I can see where too low could create issues but anything in the 90's to low 100's is fair game for me.

I have three 6.5x47s and have always found H4350 to group the best with the 135 and 140 grain bullets. 5-shot groups under 1/4 moa have been readily attainable and some have tuned well under that. FWIW, my fill densities are 100% or very close.

So H4350 models to 39.8 grains and gives me 2823 fps out of a 28 inch barrel with 140g ELD-M @ a 92% density. Does the charge weight and speed sound right? Will 100% try H4350 regardless - I have heard great things about it in this cartridge and was finally able to get some this weekend. URP models the best but I’m pretty sure we will never see Norma powders again or not for a long whille.

edit - using Lapua brass

 

[newbieshooter]

I don't know anything about case fill. My lone 6.5x47 barrel shot better with Varget and a Berger 140.

Bullet / load choice for 6.5x47 short range

Built me a 6.5x47 Lapua with an 8 twist barrel and looking for bullet and/or load options for shoot short range (300 yards) with accuracy being king. Not looking to drive them balls-out either because its just not needed. Considering the Lapua 123gr or the 136gr or possibly the Sierra 123gr...

forum.accurateshooter.com

 

[Sebrock]

I don't know anything about case fill. My lone 6.5x47 barrel shot better with Varget and a Berger 140.

Bullet / load choice for 6.5x47 short range

Built me a 6.5x47 Lapua with an 8 twist barrel and looking for bullet and/or load options for shoot short range (300 yards) with accuracy being king. Not looking to drive them balls-out either because its just not needed. Considering the Lapua 123gr or the 136gr or possibly the Sierra 123gr...

forum.accurateshooter.com

I have 140g LRBTs and Hybrids. Will give those a try as well. I don’t have Varget but given that H4350 finally became available (even for a little), I’m hopeful I can get some.

good to know folks are getting good results with these powders. Guess case fill ratio is not as sensitive as my 6.5 creedmoor.

 

[JEFFPPC]

I spent one season with a 6,5 x 47. Varget worked best for me but I found no gain over the various 6br based cases. I will play with it again but it will be with bullets in the 130 range. I feel the 140 is just a tad too much bullet for that case. But I an for sure no great source for 6.5 x 47 info. Just my ideas.

 

[Lefty Trigger]

I never went for case fill capacity unless it's a ball powder, those seem to do better with darn near full case. My 6.5x47 shot 130gr bullets best with RL-15 (37.0gr) and 140gr with RL-16 (37.9).

 

[Dub]

So H4350 models to 39.8 grains and gives me 2823 fps out of a 28 inch barrel with 140g ELD-M @ a 92% density. Does the charge weight and speed sound right? Will 100% try H4350 regardless - I have heard great things about it in this cartridge and was finally able to get some this weekend. URP models the best but I’m pretty sure we will never see Norma powders again or not for a long whille.

edit - using Lapua brass

that should be a very good load

 

[Dub]

140 gr Berger Hybrids over 38.5gr of H4350 was an awesome old for me

 

[4xforfun]

So H4350 models to 39.8 grains and gives me 2823 fps out of a 28 inch barrel with 140g ELD-M @ a 92% density. Does the charge weight and speed sound right? Will 100% try H4350 regardless - I have heard great things about it in this cartridge and was finally able to get some this weekend. URP models the best but I’m pretty sure we will never see Norma powders again or not for a long whille.

edit - using Lapua brass

My 6.5 shoots the Berger 140 LRBT right at 2820 with 39.8 H4350 out of a 30 inch tube. After 1500 rounds I am now contemplating anther new tube in x47.

 

[Sebrock]

My 6.5 shoots the Berger 140 LRBT right at 2820 with 39.8 H4350 out of a 30 inch tube. After 1500 rounds I am now contemplating anther new tube in x47.

I’m quickly becoming such a huge fan of this cartridge. Don’t have enough experience with it yet but I am liking more than my creedmoor.

 

[4xforfun]

I’m quickly becoming such a huge fan of this cartridge. Don’t have enough experience with it yet but I am liking more than my creedmoor.

I shoot primarily 600/1000 BR. I don't know if I will ever find anything better than the Dasher.....but I am sure gonna try!!

 

[Sebrock]

I shoot primarily 600/1000 BR. I don't know if I will ever find anything better than the Dasher.....but I am sure gonna try!!

Yeah I hear ya. I think that at some point I’m headed towards that. Baby steps - 6.5 creedmoor to 6.5x47 to 6x47 to 6 dasher.

 

[Laurie]

My experience of the 6.5X47L and of speaking to others is that it appears to straddle a watershed as far as powders are concerned with 123-140gn bullets. Most users appear to get best results from VarGet or similar, but some rifles just won't perform with powders in this burn-speed level and need something 'slower'. My last rifle in it was one such even with 123s and I ended up using Viht N150 which despite what burn-rate charts show lies between VarGet and H4350, slightly closer to the former.

Forget case fill-ratios as long as they're above 80% and below excessive charge compression. The load combination either works or it doesn't in your rifle and how well other powder characteristics match the application are much more important.

 

[Sebrock]

My experience of the 6.5X47L and of speaking to others is that it appears to straddle a watershed as far as powders are concerned with 123-140gn bullets. Most users appear to get best results from VarGet or similar, but some rifles just won't perform with powders in this burn-speed level and need something 'slower'. My last rifle in it was one such even with 123s and I ended up using Viht N150 which despite what burn-rate charts show lies between VarGet and H4350, slightly closer to the former.

Forget case fill-ratios as long as they're above 80% and below excessive charge compression. The load combination either works or it doesn't in your rifle and how well other powder characteristics match the application are much more important.

Thank you Laurie - yes I am disregarding fill ratios. Will take your advice above if this thing doesnt shoot but from what I see so far, it should. Luckily I was able to finally get Varget this past weekend so its going to make load development so much easier. There is a ton of great info on the Cal Zant's blog on this caliber and clearly there is a formula that works for top competitors and I happen to have all the components - looking like somewhere around 36.8g of Varget in a Lapua case with a 140 ELD-M and CCI 450s.

 

[dttheliman]

So H4350 models to 39.8 grains and gives me 2823 fps out of a 28 inch barrel with 140g ELD-M @ a 92% density. Does the charge weight and speed sound right? Will 100% try H4350 regardless - I have heard great things about it in this cartridge and was finally able to get some this weekend. URP models the best but I’m pretty sure we will never see Norma powders again or not for a long whille.

edit - using Lapua brass

It’s all relative I use 40.5 grains of H4350 with the 140eld-m it’s running at 2850 on a 27” barrel - I’m sure I could push it harder - but I am on the 7th time with the same lapua brass , and it just plain shoots , bottom of the high node and 20 thou off , never messed with this in quick load, found the combo in the first ladder I shot with the new barrel

 

[nakneker]

Magic load in my 6.5x47 is Varget and a Berger VLD hunting bullet. I started off with H4350, actually found the load on here on the cartridge guide. Link below.

You are being redirected...

 

[Sebrock]

It’s all relative I use 40.5 grains of H4350 with the 140eld-m it’s running at 2850 on a 27” barrel - I’m sure I could push it harder - but I am on the 7th time with the same lapua brass , and it just plain shoots , bottom of the high node and 20 thou off , never messed with this in quick load, found the combo in the first ladder I shot with the new barrel

I just use QL and Gordons to help set up my ladder, along with a manual. The actual ladder test will tell me where I end up. I’m like you, I like the lower portion of the higher node. I’m going to run a ladder on 4350 and Varget since that seems to be what folks are reporting best. But my guess based on what I’ve been reading is that I will end up with Varget. But clearly the rifle will tell me what it likes. I have some Berger 140g LRBT and Hybrids that I will eventually test as well.

 

[Eric Leonard]

Before I ran out of 140 vldh bullets I happened to try H4895 and with 35.0 it was at 2795 fps from a 30 inch Krieger and was shooting better than anything I have tried,