6.5x47 improved?

[Josh11]

I was wondering if anyone has done this yet? Or would it even be a good thing. I like the barrel life reports and that it shoots great with 123-130 grn bullets but what about the 139-140 grain bullets? I like the B.C. of the 139 lapuas. Lets discuss any pros and cons. Thanks,

 

[15Tango]

There's not much body taper as it is and it has a 30 degree shoulder now, going to a 40 degree wouldn't get you much. 30 degree already allows for not having to trim the brass pretty much ever. I don't see much benefit to improving it. If you want to be able to send the heavier bullets out at a faster clip I think you'd have to go up to a 6.5 Creedmoor, which is nearly identical but everything's a bit longer - the shoulder and neck are out farther giving an increase in case capacity.

Wayne

 

[sparker]

I think the cartridge is optimized. It is designed to run at 63000 psi. Moving the shoulder forward will only weaken it. Thus, your max pressure will be reduced. The Berger 130 really gives up very little to the Lapua 139. Then there are also the issues of fire forming and getting custom dies made.

 

[2644ever]

You could short chamber a .260 Rem AI reamer and end up with a little more boiler room, or you could proceed directly to the Creed' as a Creed' reamer would clean a 6.5x47 chamber, or you could "dasherize" the case with an altered 6.5x47 reamer with a shorter neck. IMHO the best option would be the Creed'...

 

[JabaliHunter]

There is a Lapua factory load with 139 Scenars listed at 2690fps (26" barrel). I imagine that with a longer barrel and careful powder selection you could improve this...

 

[Erik Cortina]

I shoot a 6.5x47 Lapua with 139 Scenars. My load is 2930 fps. with RL17. I've testing N550 and my accuracy load is at 2900 fps. with really good ES/SD

Brass life is really good at this speeds too.

 

[ktoney]

HI Erik
well i finally got my SEB NEO, work of art
As of yet no range time so dont know final load thou based on your info i see no reason the 140berger wont work and give close to 2950fps

Sparker
Bryan Litz testing showed both 130berger and 130 JLK have better ballistics than 139 scenar
Of course results is what counts use which ever shoots best in your rig, Erik shot some smoking scores(record) with 139 scenar...so terminal ballistics numbers are not everything

 

[Steve Blair]

Bryan Litz testing showed both 130berger and 130 JLK have better ballistics than 139 scenar

Litz's testing shows a .282 G7 for the Berger 130 VLD and a .285 for the Lapua 139 Scenar. How is that better ballistics?

so terminal ballistics numbers are not everything

Terminal ballistics is what happens when the projectile strikes the target. The above should read "exterior ballistics."

I agree that Erik shot some great scores.

 

[Josh11]

Erik, what is your load, barrel ect? If I can push 139 that fast, I think that would be the ticket.

 

[Josh11]

If that velocity can be achived whith the 6.5x47 why does anyone use the 260 or 6.5284? It just seems to be the smarter way to go, plus easier on your shoulder. Haha. Not bashing the 260 or 284.

 

[15Tango]

If that velocity can be achived whith the 6.5x47 why does anyone use the 260 or 6.5284? It just seems to be the smarter way to go, plus easier on your shoulder. Haha. Not bashing the 260 or 284.

I think the hangups people had with the 260 all these years has been the brass, Lapua's fixing that though. I think there'll be a bit of a rebirth with that cartridge very soon, especially in the improved version.

Will the 260 push a heavy bullet faster than a 6.5X47L? Sure it will, if both are pushed to their total limits. The thing is that most people have found that running that weight class at 2900 FPS +/-50FPS is nearly optimal. The 260 might be able to shove a 140 at 3100 pushed really hard but there's not much point if it's not accurate.

The hangup on the 6.5-284 has always been barrel life and action length for some. Now that these other 6.5MM hot rods are out there (6.5X47L, 6.5 Creedmoor, 260 &AI) I think the 6.5-284 might be losing some interest. That's okay though, because the interest in the 284 Winchester seems to be better than ever and making a strong comeback.

I'm at the point of needing to rebarrel a 6.5 Creedmoor and I can honestly say I can't make up my mind to stay with the Creedmoor or go to the 260AI, the new brass makes that 260 very tempting and it wouldn't hurt to have a little extra capacity - the bullets being seated into the neck are the only thing giving me pause - something the Creedmoor excels at.

In the end they're all competitive and help us have a little more flavor to life. Heck, if people are shooting the 6.5 Grendel successfully at 1000 yards there's no reason one of these other cartridges can't be.

Wayne

 

[Josh11]

I agree with what ya. I really like that I can run the 6.5 47 with small primers, less powder and good bullets. I will mainly shoot 600 yards in comp, but just to say I have and I can, I want the extra push to go 1000 yards. Its this or the dasher or the BRX. Cant decide.

 

[15Tango]

Insert Quote
I agree with what ya. I really like that I can run the 6.5 47 with small primers, less powder and good bullets. I will mainly shoot 600 yards in comp, but just to say I have and I can, I want the extra push to go 1000 yards. Its this or the dasher or the BRX. Cant decide.

I've got plenty of 6MM love, believe me. However, comparing those two cartridges to a 6.5 Lapua . . .

105 VLD @ 3000 FPS, 1000 yards, 10 mph wind:
288" drop, 79" wind deflection

123 Scenar @ 3050 FPS:
259" drop, 66" wind deflection

140 VLD @ 2850FPS:
282" drop, 62.87" wind deflection

Those are all pretty chill but realistic numbers. That difference in wind deflection certainly gives you an upper hand with the 6.5.

Wayne

 

[Erik Cortina]

HI Erik
well i finally got my SEB NEO, work of art
As of yet no range time so dont know final load thou based on your info i see no reason the 140berger wont work and give close to 2950fps

Sparker
Bryan Litz testing showed both 130berger and 130 JLK have better ballistics than 139 scenar
Of course results is what counts use which ever shoots best in your rig, Erik shot some smoking scores(record) with 139 scenar...so terminal ballistics numbers are not everything

The 140 VLD should work just as well.

I saw Arne's SEB NEO rest and eventhough it is very nice and well built, and a work of art for sure, I think I'm going to stick to my regular SEB, I have the F-Class feet and the tall legs so I can manage, I do like the extra height adjustement on the NEO though. What I really like about mine is that the center portion of the rest where the bag sits can be rotated, so it's really easy to line up to the target. Can't go wront with either!

Erik, what is your load, barrel ect? If I can push 139 that fast, I think that would be the ticket.

***WORK UP TO THIS LOAD***
My previous barrel is 28" 4 groove Krieger, my load is:
6.5x47 Lapua
139 Lapua Scenars Jam +0.010"
42.0 gr. Reloader 17
CCI 450 Primers
Velocity 2930 fps.

I'm still working with my new barrel, it's 30" 4 groove Krieger, but it won't shoot 42.0 RL 17 load, it's too fast, I average 3020 fps. with it, so I need to drop the powder charge down to mid 2900's and it should work.

I started testing N550 and it really shoots! I can get 2900 fps. with single digit ES/SD and it shoots in the .1's at 100 yards, going to take it out further as soon as I have time and see how it does further out.

I agree with what ya. I really like that I can run the 6.5 47 with small primers, less powder and good bullets. I will mainly shoot 600 yards in comp, but just to say I have and I can, I want the extra push to go 1000 yards. Its this or the dasher or the BRX. Cant decide.

The 6.5 x 47 will have an advantage over the 6mm's and it is just as accurate.

 

[ktoney]

Litz's testing shows a .282 G7 for the Berger 130 VLD and a .285 for the Lapua 139 Scenar. How is that better ballistics?

The jest there i believe was due to the small diff in BC, and fact you can run 130 faster equals better terminal numbers

but agin it all about lil holes in target regardless of bullet used
I currently shoot 123scenar thou the 123 amax shot as good n is much cheaper, i have 1k scenar HBN coated to get thru before i switch

 

[Steve Blair]

The jest there i believe was due to the small diff in BC, and fact you can run 130 faster equals better terminal numbers

but agin it all about lil holes in target regardless of bullet used
I currently shoot 123scenar thou the 123 amax shot as good n is much cheaper, i have 1k scenar HBN coated to get thru before i switch

Agreed. The Lapua 139 Scenar is an older design and not as slick as some newer bullets. If the Berger 130 VLD is compared against the Berger 140 VLD (.313 G7), it is a different story. Loaded to equal pressures, the 140 will shoot ½ MOA better than the 130 at 1000 in the mythical 10 mph, 90° crosswind. Higher BC bullets of the same caliber, loaded to equal pressure, will always outperform lower BC bullets over the same distance.

Light bullet fans often cite flat trajectory, reduced flight time and lower recoil as reasons to avoid heavy bullets. For known-distance shooters, only recoil is a valid point and that can be managed. Within the cartridges that interest modern target shooters, trajectory is not a big issue. If you are shooting tactical-style, unknown-distance matches, trajectory does matter. It will reduce the effects of range estimation error. Flight time is a red herring and not enough to compensate for a lower BC.

The bottom line is that the heaviest, highest BC bullet practical will provide better wind deflection numbers than lighter, lower BC bullets. That is not the only factor but must be considered for long range shooting.

 

[ktoney]

I would say this
firstly case cap and barrel length fig into decision of bullet used
ie
Da pig gun 20" 6.5x47 123gr @ 2900 is perfect for that combo
running a 140 you cant push it fast enuff to take advantage of better BC
per QL/QT 123 is 1.5MOA better for drift @ 1k

Now in a (30") longer barrel the reverse is true with the 140 being better for drift by about 1.5MOA @ 1k, per QL/QT

High BC + FPS = ;D
however lower BC bullet driven faster can overcome BC advantage of a slower bullet
regardless if they dont make bug holes its all irrelevant