6.5x47 Berger Bullets

[MahtewsSB]

Hey guys, new to the forum here. I'm in the process of my first build and I've settled on a 6.5x47 Lapua with a 1:8" Krieger barrel on a 700 action. I'm also getting into reloading so I can get the most accuracy out of this new rifle. I'll be running the Lapua brass and plan to use the berger VLD hunting bullets in either 130 or 140 gr. I would like to use varget if I can get my hands on it, or H4350. Maybe RL-15 or -17 if I can't get any of the others. I was wondering what kind of results you guys were getting with the 130 and 140 VLDs with these powders. If you could post loads, velocities if known, twist rates, etc. The more info the better, I'm trying to learn as much as I can. Any help would be greatly appreciated. I'm also open to other options and any advice.

Thanks

 

[krktractor]

As always start low on powder charge and work you way up. I have shot 123 scenars 136L scenars 139 scenars, the 123 would never group well no matter what powder charge , seating depth or neck tension the 139 scenars shot well but could never get the velocity I wanted. The 136L scenars shot well with H4350 at 41.5 grains with .001-.002 neck tension. I moved on to the bergers and everything came together. I started low around 39 grains of H4350 and worked all the way to 42 before I saw an ejector mark and I mean barely visible. Now I know that's not the only thing to tell you signs of over pressure but that is my stopping point then I back up at least 1/2 grain on my charge. I shot the 130 bergers match VLD at 2960 and ended up at 2880 with 140 hybrid bergers and my gun loves them. I have a defiance deviant SA and a 8.5 twist 28 inch krieger barrel with a 170 freebore. Able to get the 140s with the neck full of bullet and still get my powder on without crushing it. I will tell you from my expierence and other post, a good tight fitting firing pin allows you to get some serious speed and brass life. Don't be surprised if you wonder when you will see signs of pressure. I have used the same 100 pieces of lapua brass and have close to 2000 rounds down mine. The throat in my barrel has moved only 10 thousandths. I'm sure my next barrel probably won't go thus well but I'm loving this cartridge and what it can do. I'm sure Eric Cortina will post his expierence on the round he has shot it for a while I think. Have fun and stay safe around the loading table, if not sure ask someone it's much safer that way.

My gun loves bergers but that doesn't mean yours will. By the way I seat mine just barely touching the lands. My charge had single digit ES and SD. If I do my part it will group 5 shots under or at 1 inch.

 

[rpierce]

Under or at 1". What distance? If only 100 something's wrong. Should shoot under 2" at 600. I just pounded a 2.7" 5 shot at 950 off the bipod with mine. 1.00" vertical.

 

[MahtewsSB]

What do you guys suggest for load development range? I've read where some guys do it at 50 yards and claim the groups wont be any different at 100. Others use 100 yards. Some use 200. Others use 100 and then verify the load at anywhere from 200-500 yards, what exactly is meant by "verify" the load? How can you tell when you hit a node as compared to just shooting a good group? I was reading this post on here earlier today

http://forum.accurateshooter.com/index.php?topic=3814361.0

and I couldn't understand why the accuracy node wasn't at 38 gr since that group was essentially one hole. Rather, Erik said the node was between 39.5 and 40.5 gr, could someone explain to me why this is the case?

 

[Patch700]

I will help you out in your search....

The following is a statement by Erik in the link you posted , it is not far into the statement in fact it is the second paragraph , here goes.


Erik's words as follows:
"At plain sight, 38.5 gr. appears to be the best group, but if you look at the groups next to it they don't hit the target on the same place vertically in relation to the bull's eye. The load is not stable and this load would cause problems when moving further out because it is not inside the accuracy node.

However, loads 39.5, 40.0, and 40.5 are vertically in the same place in relation to the bull's eye."




The answer is rite there for you ... The information provided by the people in that thread can save you many barrels and thousands of dollars in components if you absorb what is there.

Good luck.

 

[MahtewsSB]

I will help you out in your search....

The following is a statement by Erik in the link you posted , it is not far into the statement in fact it is the second paragraph , here goes.


Erik's words as follows:
"At plain sight, 38.5 gr. appears to be the best group, but if you look at the groups next to it they don't hit the target on the same place vertically in relation to the bull's eye. The load is not stable and this load would cause problems when moving further out because it is not inside the accuracy node.

However, loads 39.5, 40.0, and 40.5 are vertically in the same place in relation to the bull's eye."




The answer is rite there for you ... The information provided by the people in that thread can save you many barrels and thousands of dollars in components if you absorb what is there.

Good luck.

I read that part of the thread as well. I was just having trouble understanding as to why. After rereading it I think i have a better understanding about it. You have to consider not only the group but the other groups around it, and since the 38 gr was lower than the 38.5 and the 38.5 was lower than the 39 the group was essentially climbing, therefore not the node. But between the 39.5 , 40, and 40.5 the vertical was the same, thus that is the node. Am I getting it right?

 

[Patch700]

I will help you out in your search....

The following is a statement by Erik in the link you posted , it is not far into the statement in fact it is the second paragraph , here goes.


Erik's words as follows:
"At plain sight, 38.5 gr. appears to be the best group, but if you look at the groups next to it they don't hit the target on the same place vertically in relation to the bull's eye. The load is not stable and this load would cause problems when moving further out because it is not inside the accuracy node.

However, loads 39.5, 40.0, and 40.5 are vertically in the same place in relation to the bull's eye."




The answer is rite there for you ... The information provided by the people in that thread can save you many barrels and thousands of dollars in components if you absorb what is there.

Good luck.

I read that part of the thread as well. I was just having trouble understanding as to why. After rereading it I think i have a better understanding about it. You have to consider not only the group but the other groups around it, and since the 38 gr was lower than the 38.5 and the 38.5 was lower than the 39 the group was essentially climbing, therefore not the node. But between the 39.5 , 40, and 40.5 the vertical was the same, thus that is the node. Am I getting it right?

Correct.... As I said if you have time to check out the entire thread it's a good read and you can learn a lot from other peoples tests that they show. Finding a load blindly that shoots outstanding on Monday morning at 7am with a given condition may very well fall apart that same day in the evening with slightly different conditions if that load is not in the middle of an accuracy node... When you get in the middle of a node you leave yourself a cushion so to speak.

Good luck.

 

[Erik Cortina]

I will help you out in your search....

The following is a statement by Erik in the link you posted , it is not far into the statement in fact it is the second paragraph , here goes.


Erik's words as follows:
"At plain sight, 38.5 gr. appears to be the best group, but if you look at the groups next to it they don't hit the target on the same place vertically in relation to the bull's eye. The load is not stable and this load would cause problems when moving further out because it is not inside the accuracy node.

However, loads 39.5, 40.0, and 40.5 are vertically in the same place in relation to the bull's eye."




The answer is rite there for you ... The information provided by the people in that thread can save you many barrels and thousands of dollars in components if you absorb what is there.

Good luck.

I read that part of the thread as well. I was just having trouble understanding as to why. After rereading it I think i have a better understanding about it. You have to consider not only the group but the other groups around it, and since the 38 gr was lower than the 38.5 and the 38.5 was lower than the 39 the group was essentially climbing, therefore not the node. But between the 39.5 , 40, and 40.5 the vertical was the same, thus that is the node. Am I getting it right?

Yes, you are getting it right. If you stack the bullseyes for 39.5, 40.0, and 40.5, they will form one group. Simply tune that group with seating depth and done.

 

[MahtewsSB]

I continue reading on that thread any time i get a chance. I've learned a lot from it already and look forward to learning even more. I plan to use this rifle for hunting rather than just target shooting. Should I consider that when acquiring seating depth? According to berger if one is using the VLDs for hunting it is best not to jam incase there is a need to remove a cartridge from the chamber as this can potentially result in the bullet being pulled from the case if it is jammed enough.

 

[krktractor]

Sorry guys. I knew I forgot something. It's shoots a 1 inch or better at 400.
I did most most of load work at 200 but not sure if that's anymore effective than 100. I go to 400 yard clay shoots where you shoot 2inch Clay pigeons at 400. It sounds as though it would be a breeze but is actually harder to do than one might think. I pretty sure Eric was at one in Utopia texas I shot and I'm pretty sure he would say the same they are a fun matchs with great people.

 

[barefooter56]

MathewsSB,
For more information on load testing with the Berger Bullets please go to our website and click on TECH TALK in the drop down bar under the INFORMATION tab on the main page. Read "VLDs Making them shoot " and 'Setting up your loads for optimum accuracy". These may clear up your questions and give you a path to follow. If you have any questions please feel free to contact us here or at tech.support@bergerbullets.com. We are glad to help.

 

[MahtewsSB]

Is anyone running the 140 VLDs? It seems that most are using the 130s. For those that are running 140s, what kind of numbers are you getting?

 

[krktractor]

I'm running 140 hybrid bergers with 41.5 of H4350 at around 2880 with single didgit ES and sd might be to hot for some rifles but I've beem shooting mine like this and have 10-12 reloads on my brass and probably have only tossed 2-3 pieces of brass. I drop my powder through a long drop tube and my throat is around 170. Have fun my gun loves th just toughi g the lands.

 

[noload]

Lapua 6.5x47 Brass is tough stuff, I've got my best groups with 130VLDs @ 300yds-600yds. Lots of 4350.

 

[bouddha]

Matthew~

I got about 43 Berger 130 VLDs you can have...and 62 123 gr A-Max Hornady's. $10 shipping.

bouddha22@cox.net

 

[MahtewsSB]

krktractor,
what ROT are you shooting? i plan to use a 1:8" since i plan to be running in the 140 gr range. i'll be using a 28" barrel as well and i was curious as to whether i could hit 2900 with the 140s without sacrificing much extra barrel life

bouddha,
i am still in the middle of my build so it will be awhile before i am ready for bullets. i will keep you in mind though if i decide to get some bullets earlier. thanks for the offer

 

[Patch700]

Are you supplying your smith with the reamer or are you having him use one of his? If so do you happen to know the specs on the reamer , specifically the throat length..

The 6.5x47 can be used with success when utilizing 140 class bullets but the throat length should be one where you are utilizing the case to its fullest.

A chamber with a short throat so as to be able to feed through a short magazine may prove less than optimum with regards to pushing 140 class bullets at speeds mentioned.

Some of the data you read on here is more than likely that which was achieved with a particular throat length. Eg: 40-41 grains of say N-550 or H4350 may work in someone's rifle with a generous throat such as .180" , however that same load in a rifle with a throat that is .080" could be disastrous .

This is not to say that if your rifle is chambered with a short throat that all is lost as your smith can lengthen the throat with an appropriate throating reamer... but rather to be aware that some generic reamers can be on the short side .

 

[MahtewsSB]

I was planning to have Krieger chamber the barrel and send them my action to mate the two together. Will be ordering the barrel middle of next week, so if there is any specific info i should consider regarding things such as throat depth and ect i would love to find it out now rather than after i order. this is my first build so im open to any suggestions and knowledge

also, it will be a mag fed rifle if that is relevant

 

[Patch700]

In that case I would say to discuss reamer choice with them , two Important points to mention are your bullet choice and that you do indeed wish to feed through a magazine.

Any info with respect to throat lengths is going to ride solely on how long of a round your magazine can properly handle.

 

[Patch700]

I realize that doesn't seem helpful to your situation. . Do you have a means to load up some dummy rounds to a length that will fit in the magazine?