6.5x284/284win gurus, click on bolt lift
- Thread starter furmaster
- Start date
Alright fellas, I have decided on a theory I will try and conclude. Hang with me on this, I will try to explain my thoughts.....I know you want pics but I am too lazy. After cutting the fireformed lapua and ww brass in half lengthwise, I can definitely tell that the win brass is thick towards the head, but actually thinner where it sticks. I then cut a new win brass in the same way and it is not heavy towards the rear concluding that the brass is flowing rearward, because it is small in the rear than the lapua. If I put a straight edge on the ff lapua brass it is straight from shoulder/body junction to the head, the win brass is straight from shoulder/body junction to only where the brass seems to "stick" and then comes back down to the head dimension. Basically the win brass is "balooned". The way I figure the pressure in the lapua case is distributed throughout the total length of the case. The win brass is giving up maybe 20% of its case between the head and the sticky spot. Im not saying that some of this area isnt contacting chamber during pressure, the point is that the spot where it sticks is taking the brunt. I think that win brass is great and shoots well, but I think 6rds is what I am going to get before a click before its had enough. Maybe I should use the win brass for my lighter 162amax loads, and lapua for my higher pressured 180vld loads. That could get me a few more reloads in the win brass. I ordered 100 lapua brass last night and will just have to play around.
From what I know about cam timing I think my bolt is perfect, That doesnt mean I am a gunsmith, just from what I know and researched yesterday, I wouldnt change anything. Like I said, I am no gunsmith, and I could be wrong. When the bolt cam was mentioned I remembered that I have a stiller predator, but ordered it with a tac300 bolt. I figured maybe it wasnt set up perfect but it looks good.
Another question........Would it be beneficial with a chamber cut for the lapua brass, to have a ".284lapua" sizing die? I know there is no such die, but one could be made. Why not get a 6.5x284norma bushing die open the neck to use my 7mm bushings? Do you think that is worth it? Ive never heard of anyone needing to do that, just curious if that makes sense, so we are not over sizing the body everytime.
I will mess around in the next couple of days/weeks and see what I can conclude. Worst case, I use Lapua brass, which is not a very bad worst case at all. I always liked it, just got some win brass at a good price and went with it.
thanks for the input everyone
S
From what I know about cam timing I think my bolt is perfect, That doesnt mean I am a gunsmith, just from what I know and researched yesterday, I wouldnt change anything. Like I said, I am no gunsmith, and I could be wrong. When the bolt cam was mentioned I remembered that I have a stiller predator, but ordered it with a tac300 bolt. I figured maybe it wasnt set up perfect but it looks good.
Another question........Would it be beneficial with a chamber cut for the lapua brass, to have a ".284lapua" sizing die? I know there is no such die, but one could be made. Why not get a 6.5x284norma bushing die open the neck to use my 7mm bushings? Do you think that is worth it? Ive never heard of anyone needing to do that, just curious if that makes sense, so we are not over sizing the body everytime.
I will mess around in the next couple of days/weeks and see what I can conclude. Worst case, I use Lapua brass, which is not a very bad worst case at all. I always liked it, just got some win brass at a good price and went with it.
thanks for the input everyone
S
bozo699
Gold $$ Contributor
S,
The .284 bushing's will fit in the 6.5*284 die no problem with no modifications , I don't want to say for sure without looking at a print but I think the body dimensions are the same so you could do as you say you want to but like I said I don't know that for sure without looking at a print of each cartridge.
Wayne.
The .284 bushing's will fit in the 6.5*284 die no problem with no modifications , I don't want to say for sure without looking at a print but I think the body dimensions are the same so you could do as you say you want to but like I said I don't know that for sure without looking at a print of each cartridge.
Wayne.
bozo699
Gold $$ Contributor
I never like to say for sure on anything but I am pretty sure they will, I own a lot of Redding comp dies and the bushings are all the same size and the dies are pretty open in the neck area, I use my 6.5*284 die all the time to size my 6*284 brass with no issues and visa-versa, I own all three, .284,6.5*284, and 6*284 but I don't own a .284 Redding die, it's just a hunting rifle and I have always used RCBS dies for it but I guess if I get time I could see if If,.....what the heck am I saying of course the neck will fit I have sized lots of Winchester .284 brass down to 6.5 and 6mm in my 6.5*284 Redding bushing die.furmaster said:
Wayne.
bozo699
Gold $$ Contributor
Why? it took me a bit to think about it, that is what is so great about this forum, we work together until we have it figured out, most all the guy's/gal's are great about that and we don't look down on people just because they know less or don't have quite as nice of setup as you do.furmaster said:
Wayne.
Well, a little update.........
I recieved my 6.5x284 lapua brass, necked it up and loaded my load mentioned on the first post. I shot a 10rd string, piling all into a .5" or better at 100 yds, not one had any kind of wierd bolt lift. I then reloaded those pieces of brass adding .5gr to the load just for fun and didnt have and issue with these as well. These last 10 were just shot at a 400yd gong. I can see where the brass is contacting the chamber on the lapua brass and is about 3/8" further toward the head than the win brass. I think that being cut for lapua brass means I should just stick with it. The win brass shot great, but I think in my chamber they are just going to be good for 6 reloads or so before they flow the way they do and start the "click" which is not such a big deal. My es over the first 10rds was 6fps, My win brass I dont think ever did that.
I will let you know if I ever get a click with the lapua brass, I will shoot these 10 for 10 reloads, annealing after every 3 firings.
S
I recieved my 6.5x284 lapua brass, necked it up and loaded my load mentioned on the first post. I shot a 10rd string, piling all into a .5" or better at 100 yds, not one had any kind of wierd bolt lift. I then reloaded those pieces of brass adding .5gr to the load just for fun and didnt have and issue with these as well. These last 10 were just shot at a 400yd gong. I can see where the brass is contacting the chamber on the lapua brass and is about 3/8" further toward the head than the win brass. I think that being cut for lapua brass means I should just stick with it. The win brass shot great, but I think in my chamber they are just going to be good for 6 reloads or so before they flow the way they do and start the "click" which is not such a big deal. My es over the first 10rds was 6fps, My win brass I dont think ever did that.
I will let you know if I ever get a click with the lapua brass, I will shoot these 10 for 10 reloads, annealing after every 3 firings.
S
Update: I have reloaded and shot the lapua brass 11 times now. I have not experienced any bolt lift issues at all. I annealed after 5 shots so they have been annealed twice. I guess "proof is in the pudding" and the smaller head on the winchester brass does make a difference.
I hope this helps someone in the future and I appreciate everyones insight to the problem I had.
s
I hope this helps someone in the future and I appreciate everyones insight to the problem I had.
s
I'm not totally sure what you guys mean by the "click", but it sounds like sticky primary extraction...??
I've had this issue with my 284 also, which I chambered using Kiff's "no turn" 284 match reamer, which is intended for Lapua brass.
New WW Super brass wouldn't show the issue on it's first firing, but would begin to develop the problem after 3-4, sizing with an FLS to achieve a ~.001" bump each time.
After taking a lot of measurments with a micrometer, I determined my Forster FLS die was not able to size the bottom of the body at all.
A Redding SB FLS die is able to reduce the body diameter, just ahead of the extractor groove, by the .001" needed to allow smooth and easy primary extraction each time.
I've had this issue with my 284 also, which I chambered using Kiff's "no turn" 284 match reamer, which is intended for Lapua brass.
New WW Super brass wouldn't show the issue on it's first firing, but would begin to develop the problem after 3-4, sizing with an FLS to achieve a ~.001" bump each time.
After taking a lot of measurments with a micrometer, I determined my Forster FLS die was not able to size the bottom of the body at all.
A Redding SB FLS die is able to reduce the body diameter, just ahead of the extractor groove, by the .001" needed to allow smooth and easy primary extraction each time.
It sounds like the resize die and the chamber are a miss-match(in any cal not just .284 etc.),,,,if things dont work in concert (reamer/chamber--ctg brass--resize die)no matter how good the smithing/chamber is,,,you will have extraction problems.....clik at the top of bolt lift is caused by cases that wont let go from the chamber(too fat-either at the .200 line or the shoulder) while difficult lift all the way up is too much headspace (cases too long)....IMHO..Roger
PS,,are your primer pockets loose??!!
PS,,are your primer pockets loose??!!
tclaunch
Silver $$ Contributor
I fix mine by putting the barrel back in the lathe and use 320 paper on a 7/16" hardwood dowel. I run the lathe around 200 rpm and use cutting oil. I measure the rear of the chamber with the back of my calipers till I get it opened up to .4715" as my FL Dasher die measures .4695". The promotion of toolmakers to recommend .470" base @ .200" is much of if not all the fault. All new reamers I have made will have a .4715" base @ .200"
I have a new barrel I cut a chamber with a Henriksen reamer that I speced the .200" diameter to be .471" and I am having this very issue.
These numbers are not answering the original question, but feel this is possibly the same senario he is experiencing, Tim
I have a new barrel I cut a chamber with a Henriksen reamer that I speced the .200" diameter to be .471" and I am having this very issue.
These numbers are not answering the original question, but feel this is possibly the same senario he is experiencing, Tim
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