6.5x284/284win gurus, click on bolt lift

[furmaster]

Alright, My setup

.284win
30" cut rifled Krieger HV
Stiller predator ss la
H4831sc
cci br2
180vld
Chamber- cut with ptg reamer made for lapua brass
.313neck, .220 freebore, 1*30 leade
I expand lapua brass with km mandrel, turn to .309 with km turner with 7mm cutter pilot
Size with redding comp fl die everytime with .307 bushing.

I started off using lapua brass, and landed on a load of 56.5g of H4831 early in the game. My barrel "broke in" I guess and gained 100+ fps. I was showing ejector wipes on the brass, and had expanded it to where it almost didnt want to fit in the lee shellholder which is super tight to start with, fits in rcbs just fine, primer looked great and primer pockets never got loose, and bolt lifts were never sticky, I just new I was on the pressure line for sure. Not to mention it absolutely hammered. .3-.4moa elevation out to 1k

I ended up picking up a bunch winchester .284 brass at a pretty good deal, and figured I would give em a try. I went through all the brass prep, weight sorted and all that jazz, I dropped my charge and worked my way back up and now have been shooting 54.5g h4831sc, 180g berger vld .015 in the lands. This gun has been shooting awesome!!.............but, Lately, more times than not I am getting the bolt click at the top, maybe 2 out of 3 rounds. I full length size bumping shoulder between .0005 and .001.

I have no ejector marks, primers look awesome, pockets havent loosened, I anneal every 3-4 firings, bolt lift seems fine until the top on some. I can rechamber the brass that sticks and it will stick again, I verified that it is sticking about .25"+ in front of ejector groove, Once resized it chambers fine. I looked at my old lapua brass I havent been shooting and it chambers fine and has seen more pressure than the ww brass ever has, I measured and the ww brass is still .497 at the head and lapua is .500. I guess I should mention this brass has been fired 6 or so times and been annealed once.

So if a bolt click comes from a tight chamber, and/or enlarged head area, how can this happen with brass that has a smaller head?

My thoughts or guesses are. 1. Chamber is cut for lapua brass, and I am running ww. so when fire formed it blows out to lapua size, then I use my redding fl sizer for a .284win., could I have over worked the body? Maybe a 6.5x284norma die modified for a 7mm neck to limit working that case?
2. Because the win brass is smaller at the head brass flows rearward, and gets thick and harder to actually size properly?, I cut fire formed lapua and ww brass in half and the ww is a bit thicker back there.

I clean my chamber regularly, any wipe off my sizing wax before I shoot.

Any help would be great

S

 

[bozo699]

S,
I have had this problem in a 6*284 using Lapua brass, first I thought it was because I was using to little neck clearance, about .0005 so I turned it so I would have .002 clearance and f.f 100 pieces of brass but after the 3rd firing I was right back to the click at the top of the stroke, I had my smith polish the back of my chamber but the problem persisted, after sizing it would cycle fine but after firing I would get the click, I was told on here once you get the click the brass is done so I had my smith polish the chamber some more and prepped my 3rd batch of brass for this rifle
After that I quit having the problem so my end results and thoughts on the matter is sticky bolt lift at the top of the stroke is caused by the head sticking to the chamber wall but for some reason once this phenomena starts the only real fix is to replace the brass and polish the chamber and to make sure your die is correctly sizing the brass, I don't know if this will help you any but it was my experience with a very similar problem to yours.
Wayne.

 

[furmaster]

Thanks Wayne, I was sorta thinking the same thing after researching this problem for weeks now. I figure the brass is poked, but just dont know why it happens. Maybe some polishing is needed. I will call my gunsmith.

Any other help is still appreciated

 

[bozo699]

Thanks Wayne, I was sorta thinking the same thing after researching this problem for weeks now. I figure the brass is poked, but just dont know why it happens. Maybe some polishing is needed. I will call my gunsmith.

Any other help is still appreciated

S,
If I could stop this by using Lapua brass I know what I would do, however I can understand the frustration first hand and wanting to solve the problem.

And yes by all means keep the info coming guy's his problem could be something else, other thoughts and ideas are always appreciated,.....I know
Wayne.

 

[furmaster]

Thank you, Im not so sure the lapua would not do the same.... it is bigger case to start with. The lapua fire forms I have dont have the rounds that the wins do, so I cant say that lapua would not do the same thing for sure. I have no problem shooting lapua brass, just curious on why Im getting this with the win brass when it is a smaller case. Im sure I, we, somebody will figure it out.

 

[1shot]

I had the same problem and it drove me nuts. My "smith" and I finally traced it back to my Redding size die. The only indicator that gave it away was a shiny spot right at the body, shoulder juntion. The die was bad and it was creating a lip on the brass because of a ring cut in the die. Now Redding replaced the die with no questions ask, but all that brass has a slight "memory" to it and always clicked at the top of the bolt stroke, so I canned the stuff.
I hope this helps,
Lloyd

 

[bozo699]

I had the same problem and it drove me nuts. My "smith" and I finally traced it back to my Redding size die. The only indicator that gave it away was a shiny spot right at the body, shoulder juntion. The die was bad and it was creating a lip on the brass because of a ring cut in the die. Now Redding replaced the die with no questions ask, but all that brass has a slight "memory" to it and always clicked at the top of the bolt stroke, so I canned the stuff.
I hope this helps,
Lloyd

Lloyd,
That's interesting I haven't heard of a bolt click at the top of the bolt lift due to a shoulder issue, I would have thought it would have stiff through the whole lift. After resizing did it cycle okay until fired again like furmaster's and mine did?
Wayne.

 

[1shot]

Bozo699,
Re-sizing and bolt closing went just fine with the new die, but even though greatly lessened, the click remained. I ask the same question of my "smith" and he reminded me that he told me that after the brass has flowed away from a certain area, that brass has taken a "set" so to speak. I was so happy to be able to shoot the rifle without breaking an extractor and having some less than thrilled military armorer knock out 10-20 rounds of brass with a cleaning rod while shooting the Wimbleton Cup match at the Nationals, I guess the little bit of info about the brass taking a set and should be trashed kinda got lost in the noise so to speak. The brass still shoots just fine if you don’t mind a click at the top.
I hope this helps,
Lloyd

 

[bozo699]

Bozo699,
Re-sizing and bolt closing went just fine with the new die, but even though greatly lessened, the click remained. I ask the same question of my "smith" and he reminded me that he told me that after the brass has flowed away from a certain area, that brass has taken a "set" so to speak. I was so happy to be able to shoot the rifle without breaking an extractor and having some less than thrilled military armorer knock out 10-20 rounds of brass with a cleaning rod while shooting the Wimbleton Cup match at the Nationals, I guess the little bit of info about the brass taking a set and should be trashed kinda got lost in the noise so to speak. The brass still shoots just fine if you don’t mind a click at the top.
I hope this helps,
Lloyd

Lloyd,
Yes this is exactly what I wanted to know, thanks I will keep this in my memory banks for future use,Thank's.
Wayne.

 

[Rustystud]

I see two different issues. SAAMI spec for the .284 is .320. The .284 no neck turn match reamer cuts the neck .3175. Lapua blue box 6.5/.284 brass expanded and neck, then sized with a .309 die. then having a Berger 180 seated with the bearing surface to the neck shoulder juncture gives a finished load neck diameter of .3125. Tight necks in the .284 tend to raise chamber preasures.

The distinctive click is from the action cocking upon bolt lift and the handle being just a bit over cocking. Sounds like Scott, Jerry, or Curtis got one just out of time.

Nat Lambeth

 

[bozo699]

What Nat is saying is what I said I first found with mine, Nat does this for a living so I would check into this problem first if it were me.
Wayne.

 

[furmaster]

I appreciate all the input, thanks guys.

I shoot a turned neck, my loaded round is .309, sized brass at .307. My chamber is a .313 neck.
I have marked my case with prussian blue and chambered, I can definitely see where it is touching/ binding in front of the head, maybe 3/4". It wont do it with fresh brass, this rifle only has about 300rds through it, and this problem just started. I would think an out of time bolt would have showed up earlier but I dont know. You guys know alot more than me, dont take my scepticism the wrong way, cuz I have no idea, thats why Im posting. Can a bolt change time?

Tonight I put a piece of brass in my shellholder chuck on my drill and sanded around the area I know binds up. Im didnt take much off, and it ejects perfectly. Why is it doing this, its driving me mad.

Thanks for the input, I appreciate all advise and avenues to check.

s

 

[bozo699]

I appreciate all the input, thanks guys.

I shoot a turned neck, my loaded round is .309, sized brass at .307. My chamber is a .313 neck.
I have marked my case with prussian blue and chambered, I can definitely see where it is touching/ binding in front of the head, maybe 3/4". It wont do it with fresh brass, this rifle only has about 300rds through it, and this problem just started. I would think an out of time bolt would have showed up earlier but I dont know. You guys know alot more than me, dont take my scepticism the wrong way, cuz I have no idea, thats why Im posting. Can a bolt change time?

Tonight I put a piece of brass in my shellholder chuck on my drill and sanded around the area I know binds up. Im didnt take much off, and it ejects perfectly. Why is it doing this, its driving me mad.

Thanks for the input, I appreciate all advise and avenues to check.

s

S,
Please tell me you didn't use sandpaper in your chamber, if you did flush it very good make sure all the grit is out of your lugs and surrounding area, then take some scotch brite and with a non metallic arbor, I use Micarta with a slot in it to put the scotch brite pad and polish out the back end of the chamber that you sanded on, if that was causing your sticking problem it should be gone or reduced, it took me about three sessions with the scotch brite to get it where it needed to be.
Wayne.

 

[furmaster]

haha, I guess I wasnt clear.....I sanded the brass that was sticking where it looked like it grabbed until it extracted good to verify where the problem was. Sorry about the confusion..I wouldnt do that although I think I will put my borescope from work in the chamber and see if I see anything funny.

thanks fellas

 

[bozo699]

haha, I guess I wasnt clear.....I sanded the brass that was sticking where it looked like it grabbed until it extracted good to verify where the problem was. Sorry about the confusion..I wouldnt do that although I think I will put my borescope from work in the chamber and see if I see anything funny.

thanks fellas

Good deal, you had me a little worried for a minute, my smith did polish mine with scotch brite but with better tooling then discribed,....later
Wayne.

 

[Steve Blair]

I had this problem with a 6BR and Redding sizing die. The Redding die would not size the brass enough at the base for my tight chamber. I had a custom sizing die made from fired brass dimensions. That die sizes the shoulder ~.0015 and the base ~.001. I have had no more clicks, same brass.

 

[johnmyers]

The click at the top of the bolt lift is why Bill Shehane developed his 6-284, 6.5-284 and 284 Shehanes. Gives a little more case capacity and eliminates the click. Can't remember all the reasons but you can find him at scopeusout.com I have two 6-284s that both click and it can be annoying.

 

[Minesweeper3433]

If you say that the rifle does not develop a "click" with new brass than it has to be your reloading die does not properly resize whichever portion of the case is sticking. I would do a cero-safe cast of your chamber and measure all the dimensions and do the same with your sizing die and see what is not adding up between the two. You might could just do a chamber cast of your rifle and send it off to have a custom sizing die made for your chamber.

 

[Preacher]

Like Nathan mentioned, it's more than likely a out of time problem causing the click..

 

[Henryp]

All my 284's have hard bolt lifts. None of my Shehanes. I think the reduced taper of the case eliminates the problem.