6.5mm round
- Thread starter calib
- Start date
Sounds like you are describing the 6.5X.284. 
Thats funny!!! Three replies, three different answers.
I love this hobby, so many ways to achieve the same results, just slightly differently!
I love this hobby, so many ways to achieve the same results, just slightly differently!
Shynloco
You can lead a horse to water, but ........
bozo699 said:
Bozo699,
Just out of curiosity, what advantage, if any, does a 260AI get you over a standard Remington 260? A friend recently finished his custom 260 (Rem 700 Action/SHilen MG Barrel/Jewell Trigger(as I best recall) and was shooting it last week at the range and getting 10 shot - 1.25" groups at 300 yds using Berger 140 VLD Targets being pushed by 44.3 grs of VVN160.
calib - personnally, I've seen several of the 6.5's/260's being shot and have come to use either the Berger 140 VLD's or the Sierra 142 VLD's in my 6.5. But use the appropriate bullet for the appropriate purpose (ie. Target bullets for Targets - hunting bullets for hunting. Both makers manufacturer those bullets in both models 0 target & hunting).
If performance is the sole, or main, criterion it'd be 6.5-284 (long-throat Norma version) or 6.5-06. Personally, I'd have 6.5-284, but others would disagree. Both need long actions, although you can get away with a shorter one with 6.5-284 if you're prepared to unload a live round by removing the bolt and accept not entirely ergonomic cartridge insertion.
(I'm assuming with your planned use, it's single-shot. If magazine feed is needed, then long actions for both.)
If you want to use a short action, it's a toss-up between three cartridges with very similar performance - 6.5X47 Lapua, 6.5mm Hornady Creedmoor, .260 Rem. All can drive 140s to surprisingly high MVs in an optimally throated target length barrel. The AI version of the .260 gives another 100 fps nearly. Of the trio, the .260 loses through its relatively long case that sees 140gn bullets seated deep unless the barrel is throated for COALs above 3.000" in which case the 6.5-284 action length / live round extraction issue arises again. The other two use shorter cases with more of the bullet exposed at sub 2.900" COALs and are ideal for short actions and magazine feed.
Other pros and cons? .260R / 6.5X47L have very good and very strong Lapua brass available. The 6.5X47L uses a small rifle size primer which is theoretically better for consistent pressures in this size case but can cause problems with factory action bolts / firing pins unless they are bushed. (Cup flows back into the firing pin hole giving cratering and piercing at less than full pressures.)
Personally, I like 6.5 Creedmoor from a design perspective, although I've yet to try it. (PT&G has twice lost the reamer orders that Vince Bottomley put in for 6BR-DX and slightly customised 6.5 Creedmoor reamers, so I've been hanging around for over a year waiting to try this one!) The snag here is only one source of brass (Hornady) and reports that while well made, it is a bit soft giving it a short life before the primer pockets loosen. You can re-form it out of Lapua .260R (or .22-250R??) though.
There is also an oldie but goodie, the 6.5X55mm which has Lapua and Norma brass available and is a potent round when run at full pressures in a modern action with good cases. You can push it to 3,000 fps with 140s in a 30" barrel, but 2,900-2,940 fps is more sensible. In AI form, it nearly produces 6.5-284 performance but with a 100% case fill-ratio whereas most loads still have some airspace in the 6.5-284. Dies are an issue for the AI form as I've yet to see any off the shelf models listed. You do need a long action, although I run this cartridge in a rebarrelled Savage 12 F Class rifle with very good results. On the odd occasion I have to unload a live round, it needs bolt withdrawal.
Finally, there is the barrel life question. A moderately loaded 260 etc will give you 2,000-3,000 rounds, really hot 6.5-284 Norma examples only 600-800, the others in between. You can push 6.5X47L to 2,900 with 140s from a 30" barrel, but barrel accuracy life drops dramatically as a result.
(I'm assuming with your planned use, it's single-shot. If magazine feed is needed, then long actions for both.)
If you want to use a short action, it's a toss-up between three cartridges with very similar performance - 6.5X47 Lapua, 6.5mm Hornady Creedmoor, .260 Rem. All can drive 140s to surprisingly high MVs in an optimally throated target length barrel. The AI version of the .260 gives another 100 fps nearly. Of the trio, the .260 loses through its relatively long case that sees 140gn bullets seated deep unless the barrel is throated for COALs above 3.000" in which case the 6.5-284 action length / live round extraction issue arises again. The other two use shorter cases with more of the bullet exposed at sub 2.900" COALs and are ideal for short actions and magazine feed.
Other pros and cons? .260R / 6.5X47L have very good and very strong Lapua brass available. The 6.5X47L uses a small rifle size primer which is theoretically better for consistent pressures in this size case but can cause problems with factory action bolts / firing pins unless they are bushed. (Cup flows back into the firing pin hole giving cratering and piercing at less than full pressures.)
Personally, I like 6.5 Creedmoor from a design perspective, although I've yet to try it. (PT&G has twice lost the reamer orders that Vince Bottomley put in for 6BR-DX and slightly customised 6.5 Creedmoor reamers, so I've been hanging around for over a year waiting to try this one!) The snag here is only one source of brass (Hornady) and reports that while well made, it is a bit soft giving it a short life before the primer pockets loosen. You can re-form it out of Lapua .260R (or .22-250R??) though.
There is also an oldie but goodie, the 6.5X55mm which has Lapua and Norma brass available and is a potent round when run at full pressures in a modern action with good cases. You can push it to 3,000 fps with 140s in a 30" barrel, but 2,900-2,940 fps is more sensible. In AI form, it nearly produces 6.5-284 performance but with a 100% case fill-ratio whereas most loads still have some airspace in the 6.5-284. Dies are an issue for the AI form as I've yet to see any off the shelf models listed. You do need a long action, although I run this cartridge in a rebarrelled Savage 12 F Class rifle with very good results. On the odd occasion I have to unload a live round, it needs bolt withdrawal.
Finally, there is the barrel life question. A moderately loaded 260 etc will give you 2,000-3,000 rounds, really hot 6.5-284 Norma examples only 600-800, the others in between. You can push 6.5X47L to 2,900 with 140s from a 30" barrel, but barrel accuracy life drops dramatically as a result.
bozo699
Gold $$ Contributor
Laurie,
Superbly written post, very informative as per usual
Shynloco,
As Laurie stated about 100 fps and a full case of powder but the reason I like it is a little less body taper and a 40* shoulder, brass lasts a long time, I don't generally run it much hotter then the std. .260 I just like the added brass life mostly. I would really like to try a 6.55X55AI and if Lapua ever comes out with creedmore brass I definitely would give it a go.
Wayne.
Superbly written post, very informative as per usual
Shynloco,
As Laurie stated about 100 fps and a full case of powder but the reason I like it is a little less body taper and a 40* shoulder, brass lasts a long time, I don't generally run it much hotter then the std. .260 I just like the added brass life mostly. I would really like to try a 6.55X55AI and if Lapua ever comes out with creedmore brass I definitely would give it a go.
Wayne.
#1 .264win mag. super great accuracy, nothing faster that I know of.
#2 6.5x55. lapua brass, it's a classic. I looked for one for a long time in a hunting rifle set-up, mainly because I already had brass & dies. the rem classic I had was not up to par accuracy wise, so I traded it off to someone who didn't mind 1 1/2" groups.
#3 6.5 creedmoor. I gave up on finding a 6.5x55 that suited me, especially when the local shop got a T/C Icon in the 6.5 creedmoor. beautiful wood, I am still playing with loads, but appears to be very, very accurate. I have yet to chronograph it, so real world speeds in a 24" barrel will be determined later when the weather permits. I am also not seeing the soft brass/loose primer pocket issues that some have claimed. supposedly Hornady has taken care of that in the last couple of years.
Several years ago, I had a 6.5x284 built on a sako medium action, I had feed issues with it. not sure how many times I would shoot a deer, work the bolt, get the crosshairs on another deer and click. didn't feed. that rebated rim just didn't feed like it should have. this may not be an issue in a rem 700, winchester etc. just my solo experience with a sako action. I only had a 22" lg barrel as well, and I didn't see any speed advantages of the case at all. it would be my last choice. If I wanted a barrel burner, I would just get a 264win mag, more speed, and just as much barrel life. very accurate
Check out the 6.5 creedmoor forum, www.65creedmoor.com, there is a fella there that shoots for hornaday, rob01, I think. he has a lot of insight on the case/cartridge straight from hornady.
#2 6.5x55. lapua brass, it's a classic. I looked for one for a long time in a hunting rifle set-up, mainly because I already had brass & dies. the rem classic I had was not up to par accuracy wise, so I traded it off to someone who didn't mind 1 1/2" groups.
#3 6.5 creedmoor. I gave up on finding a 6.5x55 that suited me, especially when the local shop got a T/C Icon in the 6.5 creedmoor. beautiful wood, I am still playing with loads, but appears to be very, very accurate. I have yet to chronograph it, so real world speeds in a 24" barrel will be determined later when the weather permits. I am also not seeing the soft brass/loose primer pocket issues that some have claimed. supposedly Hornady has taken care of that in the last couple of years.
Several years ago, I had a 6.5x284 built on a sako medium action, I had feed issues with it. not sure how many times I would shoot a deer, work the bolt, get the crosshairs on another deer and click. didn't feed. that rebated rim just didn't feed like it should have. this may not be an issue in a rem 700, winchester etc. just my solo experience with a sako action. I only had a 22" lg barrel as well, and I didn't see any speed advantages of the case at all. it would be my last choice. If I wanted a barrel burner, I would just get a 264win mag, more speed, and just as much barrel life. very accurate
Check out the 6.5 creedmoor forum, www.65creedmoor.com, there is a fella there that shoots for hornaday, rob01, I think. he has a lot of insight on the case/cartridge straight from hornady.
lots of great info in just one night of this thread being out there and thanks for all of the repplies. i have a lot to think about when taking this project on. i dont really mind the long action even though most all my guns are short actions. what is the big difference in action performance between a short and a long? i have heard that the short is more rigid, but is that the truth or what?
the 6.5x55ai sounds like a fun round just because it would be one that not many have. wayne i completely understand about the ackley brass life. i am attreacted to that 40* shoulder also, that is why i have 2- 243ai and soon to be 1- 22-250ai. maybe a 260ai would be the ticket. there are soo many options to think of. i will have to do more research and see really what i want.
thanks for all the replies and keep the info coming
caleb
the 6.5x55ai sounds like a fun round just because it would be one that not many have. wayne i completely understand about the ackley brass life. i am attreacted to that 40* shoulder also, that is why i have 2- 243ai and soon to be 1- 22-250ai. maybe a 260ai would be the ticket. there are soo many options to think of. i will have to do more research and see really what i want.
thanks for all the replies and keep the info coming
caleb
drop_point
Silver $$ Contributor
It really depends on what you want to do with it. I'm shooting 6.5x47. I can jam long bullets into the lands and feed from an AI magazine without any issues at all. I was getting 2900 fps+ with my 26" bbl and 130s. I just had the barrel shortened to 22" to help accommodate a suppressor. I haven't chronoed it yet, but the same load is just as accurate, if not more so.
The brass seems to be nearly bulletproof and the cartridge is very forgiving to load for. With a .260 factory chamber, I couldn't reach the lands in a s/a and retain the ability to feed from the magazine or extract a loaded cartridge. If you're shooting 140 SMKs, not reaching the lands isn't as much of an issue, but for guys wanting to run VLDs or Scenars, its nice to stretch it out on OAL.
I have no experience with the Creed, but I'm told there are no problems with mag-length in it, but the downside is the lack of the excellent Lapua brass.
The brass seems to be nearly bulletproof and the cartridge is very forgiving to load for. With a .260 factory chamber, I couldn't reach the lands in a s/a and retain the ability to feed from the magazine or extract a loaded cartridge. If you're shooting 140 SMKs, not reaching the lands isn't as much of an issue, but for guys wanting to run VLDs or Scenars, its nice to stretch it out on OAL.
I have no experience with the Creed, but I'm told there are no problems with mag-length in it, but the downside is the lack of the excellent Lapua brass.
Hi Folks, I have a 6.5x55 30inch barrel, a 6.5x47 30inch barrel and a accuracy int AE in 260Rem with 31inch barrel, this had to have the firing pin hole bushed to 0.260thou from 0.280thou with the firing pin slimmed to 0.258 thou after 2 years of cratered and pierced primers, prior to this I had the firing pin and spring changed and I used almost every make of primers, even tried moly coated bullets, nothing worked until I had it bushed, now no problems, I run 140gr bullets at 2930 fps COL 2950 thou, and yes they feed from the AE magazine which can take a COL of 2975 thou.
My Rem 308 which I had re-barreled to 6.5x47 has had No problems with cratering or pierced primers even at max loads, without bushing firing pin hole, but I do use CCI 450 primers.
The 6.5x55 is a dream to load for and could possibly reach 3000 fps although I load to 2925 Fps, in my set up the 260 is the most accurate at 1000 yds,
it has a 0.290 neck, maybe this makes a difference ? who knows.
dooley (UK)
My Rem 308 which I had re-barreled to 6.5x47 has had No problems with cratering or pierced primers even at max loads, without bushing firing pin hole, but I do use CCI 450 primers.
The 6.5x55 is a dream to load for and could possibly reach 3000 fps although I load to 2925 Fps, in my set up the 260 is the most accurate at 1000 yds,
it has a 0.290 neck, maybe this makes a difference ? who knows.
dooley (UK)
BigDMT
The 6.5-284, 260, 6.5-06, and 6.5x55 will surely give good accuracy and "decent" velocity (2800-3000 fps with a 140gr bullet) in a rifle geared up for hunting. ie, 26" barrel or less. But if you really want the high velocity for long range energy and superior resistance to wind drift when hunting big game or varmints, a 6.5 based on a magnum case is more than likely the way to go.
A good high velocity/low recoil choice would be the 6.5-300 WSM, 6.5 Rem Mag, 264 Win Mag, or 6.5 SAUM. There's even a 6.5mm round that has been designed on the 300 Ruger Compact Magnum case that gives high velocity and great accuracy. Dropping big game at ranges from 600+ yards or really bucking the wind for a shot on a far off plains coyote is no problem for any of these rounds. All are capable of easily pushing a 140gr bullet to 3200 fps in a 26" barrel.
But the other mentioned rounds in this thread would serve you just as well if long range large game (elk, mule deer, etc. at over 600 yards) isn't a main part of the menu for the rifle.
Thats my 2 cents from experience with a 6.5 Rem Mag, 260 Rem, and 6.5-300 WSM
A good high velocity/low recoil choice would be the 6.5-300 WSM, 6.5 Rem Mag, 264 Win Mag, or 6.5 SAUM. There's even a 6.5mm round that has been designed on the 300 Ruger Compact Magnum case that gives high velocity and great accuracy. Dropping big game at ranges from 600+ yards or really bucking the wind for a shot on a far off plains coyote is no problem for any of these rounds. All are capable of easily pushing a 140gr bullet to 3200 fps in a 26" barrel.
But the other mentioned rounds in this thread would serve you just as well if long range large game (elk, mule deer, etc. at over 600 yards) isn't a main part of the menu for the rifle.
Thats my 2 cents from experience with a 6.5 Rem Mag, 260 Rem, and 6.5-300 WSM
BigDMT
Trade off is right. If you want high velocity, barrel life will have to suffer a bit.
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