6.5CM

[CTanM]

Oh boy....

Here’s the deal....

The REAL deal.....

The 6.5 Creedmoor is marketing at its finest... nothing more or less

If Lapua had called theirs the 6.5x47 Creedmoor it would have won, because at one time you could argue for the small primer pocket, and some inherited accuracy from its case in my opinion, and because it sounded cool

The 6.5CM isn’t a laser beam from space that can do things that a .260 can’t do.

Or a 6.5x47 can’t do...

Or a .264 Winchester magnum can’t do

(From a ballistic standpoint, not recoil or barrel life)

But... there are internet rambos that will tell you otherwise.

For that matter.... there are men and women that can do things with a 22 BR that others cant do with a 6.5 CM

It’s all in how you point any of them.
And how devoted you are to learning what you can do with your rifle.

The 6.5 gets all of its negative rap simply because of the “fanboy” types that you refer to.

Lots of terribly wrong information gets shared amongst the stereotypical 6.5 sniper elite.

You know like.... I bought a 6.5 CM.... then I bought a Nikon with a bullet drop reticle.... Now I can ethically hunt deer at 1000 yards. Gag

The BULLETs are great bullets, 6.5 I mean

You can drive them with any case you want and if you put the time in at your reloading bench more than likely you can shoot competitively with any 6.5 wildcat you can dream up.

But at the end of the day....

I will argue on behalf of the 6.5 CM when it comes to a PRS round.

There’s almost no arguing it.

It shoots good bullets

You can source good brass for it

It shoots 4,000 yards...(joke)

And you can get decent brass you don’t mind losing several pieces of in a match

Whereas you’ll be crawling around looking for your 47 brass while the next guy is trying to shoot

Also it has light enough recoil to spot your hits, while giving a slight edge over the 6mm.

I still hate it.

But I have one

For PRS

But as I’ve said before.... mine is a
.264 Creedmoor

 

[CTanM]

And as far as the Ruger precision goes

It comes with all the bells and whistles you have to have to compete, for half the money of building it

A 1 MOA gun will WIN a PRS match in the right hands

Provided you can read your wind, and hold your gun steady while resting on a pipe fence.

Just find a load that gives consistent velocity and you can shoot your Ruger for a long time, and be competitive with it.

Also I’ve never seen a PRS match with return fire.... so....don’t wear knee pads, don’t do barrel rolls, and don’t duck while running.

Make time with your bolt throw and..... most importantly.... make sure when you bring your gun to your eye your target is in the scope.... blows my mind to see people that do run, do slide, do wear knee pads.... and yet when they shoulder their gun they are swinging it around like a damn baton looking all over for their target that is 30 degrees to their left haha.

You can make time by being a gunhand

 

[people]

If Lapua had called theirs the 6.5x47 Creedmoor it would have won, because at one time you could argue for the small primer pocket, and some inherited accuracy from its case in my opinion, and because it sounded cool

This part of your quote is only half true. Where the team that put out the creedmoor succeeded is they brought out a new round with rifles provided by several makers. They had components available. Most importantly they had tons of ammo ready to go. Walk into almost any store that stocks ammo and they will have 6.5 creedmoor in stock. When it was first released there was several match loads to choose from and they put the load on the box. So if you did hand load you could get the stuff and replicate factory ammo. Within a month there was several companies making 6.5CM ammo. Today it is a true success story. Almost everyone makes a rifle in that chamber and there is so much ammo out there it is hard not to trip over the stuff.

As ugly as the ruger PRS rifle is one has to admit it is a good rifle. With the benefit of using Pmags and it is easy to work on.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

im a huge fan of the RPR. would I ever buy one? no but im glad they make it as it has probaly got a lot of new dudes into shooting that may otherwise not be able to afford it or know where to start getting a custom rifle.

 

[Brians356]

The magical "modern" 6.5 Creedmoor is essentially a necked-up 250-3000 Ackley Improved 30-deg with a slightly longer neck and an ugly oversized extractor groove. I have run a fired 6.5 CM case through my Redding 250 AI FL die and, other than necking it down to 25 caliber, it does nothing of significance to the case body.
-

 

[CTanM]

This part of your quote is only half true. Where the team that put out the creedmoor succeeded is they brought out a new round with rifles provided by several makers. They had components available. Most importantly they had tons of ammo ready to go. Walk into almost any store that stocks ammo and they will have 6.5 creedmoor in stock. When it was first released there was several match loads to choose from and they put the load on the box. So if you did hand load you could get the stuff and replicate factory ammo. Within a month there was several companies making 6.5CM ammo. Today it is a true success story. Almost everyone makes a rifle in that chamber and there is so much ammo out there it is hard not to trip over the stuff.

As ugly as the ruger PRS rifle is one has to admit it is a good rifle. With the benefit of using Pmags and it is easy to work on.

All that stuff you described.... is marketing in one degree or the other

So I agree with you

All I meant was that it was successful because of that marketing....

Not because it did a job better than the 6.5x47 or the .260 or the 6.5x284

6.5s have been ignored for a long time by the public. Lots of good .264s out there that never really took off or were overshadowed by something else that wasn’t necessarily better.

The public just needed a 6.5 that had a cool name and that you didn’t have to hand load for.

I don’t know how much ammo was really “ready to go”....

I think they got it ready to go because the consumers bought the hype that the 6.5 CM gave any one man the skill to shoot 1000 yards instantly.

And yes every store stocks ammo now because it took off.

But there’s wasn’t piles of ammo for a 6.5 Creedmoor at the local gun store in 2007

There were two match loads to choose from. And they did shoot arguably “better” than other 6.5s because the average consumer knows nothing about seating depth, next tension, or fire forming, or any of the other mystical things we obsess over

And came from the factory with high BC bullets that we would ordinarily have to install ourselves haha

Giving the false sense that the Creedmoor had achieved something nothing else had.

Others have been doing it for a very long time. Just had to roll their own to do it.

There have been a few flops where gun makers zigged and ammo makers zagged...

6mm Remington comes to mind....

So when they got on the same page for this one.... the rest is history.

The 6.5 Creedmoor is a good cartridge.

It just gets bagged on because you can buy a gun and a box of “bullets” and go shoot 1000 yards.

So 6.5 guys get picked on.

But it’s all in clean fun

 

[Dusty Stevens]

All that stuff you described.... is marketing in one degree or the other

So I agree with you

All I meant was that it was successful because of that marketing....

Not because it did a job better than the 6.5x47 or the .260 or the 6.5x284

6.5s have been ignored for a long time by the public. Lots of good .264s out there that never really took off or were overshadowed by something else that wasn’t necessarily better.

The public just needed a 6.5 that had a cool name and that you didn’t have to hand load for.

I don’t know how much ammo was really “ready to go”....

I think they got it ready to go because the consumers bought the hype that the 6.5 CM gave any one man the skill to shoot 1000 yards instantly.

And yes every store stocks ammo now because it took off.

But there’s wasn’t piles of ammo for a 6.5 Creedmoor at the local gun store in 2007

There were two match loads to choose from. And they did shoot arguably “better” than other 6.5s because the average consumer knows nothing about seating depth, next tension, or fire forming, or any of the other mystical things we obsess over

And came from the factory with high BC bullets that we would ordinarily have to install ourselves haha

Giving the false sense that the Creedmoor had achieved something nothing else had.

Others have been doing it for a very long time. Just had to roll their own to do it.

There have been a few flops where gun makers zigged and ammo makers zagged...

6mm Remington comes to mind....

So when they got on the same page for this one.... the rest is history.

The 6.5 Creedmoor is a good cartridge.

It just gets bagged on because you can buy a gun and a box of “bullets” and go shoot 1000 yards.

So 6.5 guys get picked on.

But it’s all in clean fun

All through history if you think about it the metric calibers have never taken off. The 7mm express was a junker but i love my 284rem. When they changed the 244 to 6mm and made all else equal to the 243 as far as bullet weights and all that it still never took off. Like all thru the 80’s in school had to learn the metric system because we were going to change over. My parent’s generation didnt know a mm from a cm and didnt care to learn that pinko commie jazz.

 

[Grimstod]

Is there a "magic cartridge"? I could use a recommendation.

6PPC

 

[jimmymac]

6PPC

Guys overlook it because internet research suggests keeping it in tune is a problem. The dirty little secret that seldom gets told is that out of tune groups might be in the 3's versus in tune that shoots 1's and 2's.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Guys overlook it because internet research suggests keeping it in tune is a problem. The dirty little secret that seldom gets told is that out of tune groups might be in the 3's versus in tune that shoots 1's and 2's.

Yea it gets wildly out of tune to where you can tell that a 5 shot (not a 3shot) group is bigger than one bullet hole. One little tweak and you can relax again.

 

[hogpatrol]

Back in the bad old days, the gun manufacturers introduced new rounds. We had the .243 Winchester, 7mm Remington magnum, .250 Savage, etc, etc. Now it's the component industry introducing new cartridges, to name a few, Lapua and the .338 and 6.5x47, Nosler's line of ## Nosler cartridges, Hornady with the .17 HMR, 17 Hornady Hornet and the Creedmoors, Federal's out with the new .224 Valkyrie. THE reason Hornady and others developed the .17s and Creedmoor was to SELL COMPONENTS! Who made Creedmoor brass early on? Hornady. What ammo was out and with whose components was it made? Hornady, of course! From this chair, pure textbook marketing and a credit to American capitalism. IIRC, there were only a couple rifle manufacturers making the rifles for it. The other gun companies and component makers didn't jump on the bandwagon until it caught on. When accuracy newbies found they could buy factory ammo and rifles and put five shots in a quarter at 100, regardless of the round not being able to do anything it's .264 predecessors couldn't do, the marketing train couldn't be stopped.
Bottom line, it's the perfect accuracy newbie cartridge and I'm grateful that it's introduced a lot of new shooters to accurate shooting, reloading, accuracy interest in their other cartridges, shooting matches, being better shooting hunters, and forums to share information and hunting stories. The experienced old timers have known what could be done with a hunk of steel and a piece of wood. I thank Hornady and the others for keeping that tradition going and especially for those two hot rimfires cartridges, 17HMR and 17HM2.

Now forget the beat downs. Go shoot your Creedmoor and enjoy the only country where we can do this stuff without the bulldung the rest of the world puts on gun guys.

Next up? Hunting my 17 REMINGTON Fireball and 28 NOSLER with a friend shooting a 6.5 Creedmoor.
The 6.5x47 Lapua will stay in the safe. Wouldn't want to embarrass him.

We now return you to our regular programming.

 

[people]

All that stuff you described.... is marketing in one degree or the other

So I agree with you

All I meant was that it was successful because of that marketing....

Not because it did a job better than the 6.5x47 or the .260 or the 6.5x284

6.5s have been ignored for a long time by the public. Lots of good .264s out there that never really took off or were overshadowed by something else that wasn’t necessarily better.

The public just needed a 6.5 that had a cool name and that you didn’t have to hand load for.

I don’t know how much ammo was really “ready to go”....

I think they got it ready to go because the consumers bought the hype that the 6.5 CM gave any one man the skill to shoot 1000 yards instantly.

And yes every store stocks ammo now because it took off.

But there’s wasn’t piles of ammo for a 6.5 Creedmoor at the local gun store in 2007

There were two match loads to choose from. And they did shoot arguably “better” than other 6.5s because the average consumer knows nothing about seating depth, next tension, or fire forming, or any of the other mystical things we obsess over

And came from the factory with high BC bullets that we would ordinarily have to install ourselves haha

Giving the false sense that the Creedmoor had achieved something nothing else had.

Others have been doing it for a very long time. Just had to roll their own to do it.

There have been a few flops where gun makers zigged and ammo makers zagged...

6mm Remington comes to mind....

So when they got on the same page for this one.... the rest is history.

The 6.5 Creedmoor is a good cartridge.

It just gets bagged on because you can buy a gun and a box of “bullets” and go shoot 1000 yards.

So 6.5 guys get picked on.

But it’s all in clean fun

OK we are on the same page. Too bad a few other rounds did not have the support and marketing department this round does.

 

[Delfuego]

The REAL deal.....The 6.5 Creedmoor is marketing at its finest... nothing more or less

Thanks for enlightening all of us with your super secret inside information. I hate to put a pin in your balloon, but... 6.5 Creedmoor succeeded though the continuous support of the cartridge.

The marketing is a relatively new development. You pick up a "shooting" magazine in the last 1-2 years and it all over it. Only within the last 2 years could you really even purchase a factory rifle in 6.5 Creedmoor. The cartridge itself has been around longer. 10 years ago 260 Remington was much, much more prevalent in our circles. 6.5x47 was second and Creedmoor was 3rd. Remington is a big dumb company and did even chamber it's own rifles in 260 Remington or make brass for it. Lapua did make brass for 6.5x47, but only offered 1 box of off the shelf ammo at $2+ per shot. Meanwhile Hornady made ammo for it and and kept pursuing it and developing it. It started really as 1 box of loaded 140 AMAX, but they didn't give up. Pretty soon they had 3 flavors or more. Other companies followed up with their 6.5 Creedmoor ammo. At the Federal time promised us Gold Metal Match in 260, It showed up 3+ years later. Lapua I think had 2 flavors of $2+ ammo. You see the pattern? It was diligence and continuous support that won, just like any product or industry. Was their marketing? Sure. Was it all marketing? F*** no.

All the Fudds (shooting magazine writers included) love the 6.5 because they were shooting slow 308's, which is a ballistic turd. Any 6.5 is better than a slow 308. They also make they money in advertising.

Gentlemen on the forum could care less and love to poke fun because they have literaly "shot it all" and have even invented new cartridges to boot. I think it's funny and like to contribute or even instigate.

As for the RPR, It is a good first or beginner rifle. It get you an accurate rifle in a usable chassis and magazine fed for under $1000. The hole thing cost not much more than a lot of us spend on a single barrel. Unfortunately it is not built last, I would not recommend it to someone I know and I wouldn't sink a penny into upgrading it.

Disclaimer: I do not even shoot 6.5. I used to shoot 260. I did however chamber a barrel for my best friend in it because he is shooting matches with us and doesn't reload.

 

[CTanM]

Thanks for enlightening all of us with your super secret inside information. I hate to put a pin in your balloon, but... 6.5 Creedmoor succeeded though the continuous support of the cartridge.

The marketing is a relatively new development. You pick up a "shooting" magazine in the last 1-2 years and it all over it. Only within the last 2 years could you really even purchase a factory rifle in 6.5 Creedmoor. The cartridge itself has been around longer. 10 years ago 260 Remington was much, much more prevalent in our circles. 6.5x47 was second and Creedmoor was 3rd. Remington is a big dumb company and did even chamber it's own rifles in 260 Remington or make brass for it. Lapua did make brass for 6.5x47, but only offered 1 box of off the shelf ammo at $2+ per shot. Meanwhile Hornady made ammo for it and and kept pursuing it and developing it. It started really as 1 box of loaded 140 AMAX, but they didn't give up. Pretty soon they had 3 flavors or more. Other companies followed up with their 6.5 Creedmoor ammo. At the Federal time promised us Gold Metal Match in 260, It showed up 3+ years later. Lapua I think had 2 flavors of $2+ ammo. You see the pattern? It was diligence and continuous support that won, just like any product or industry. Was their marketing? Sure. Was it all marketing? F*** no.

All the Fudds (shooting magazine writers included) love the 6.5 because they were shooting slow 308's, which is a ballistic turd. Any 6.5 is better than a slow 308. They also make they money in advertising.

Gentlemen on the forum could care less and love to poke fun because they have literaly "shot it all" and have even invented new cartridges to boot. I think it's funny and like to contribute or even instigate.

As for the RPR, It is a good first or beginner rifle. It get you an accurate rifle in a usable chassis and magazine fed for under $1000. The hole thing cost not much more than a lot of us spend on a single barrel. Unfortunately it is not built last, I would not recommend it to someone I know and I wouldn't sink a penny into upgrading it.

Disclaimer: I do not even shoot 6.5. I used to shoot 260. I did however chamber a barrel for my best friend in it because he is shooting matches with us and doesn't reload.

Not sure why the poke at me....

You agree with me?

But if you are the acclaimed shooter I think you must be....

Then I doubt it was you and your friends buying the factory guns and ammunition that supported the growth of the 6.5 CM in its dark years.

Without the marketing and hype to the AVERAGE consumer the spark wouldn’t have become a flame. The marketing isn’t a recent development. The pursuit of growth by hornady you refer to....is marketing.

By marketing I don’t mean an ad in a magazine. That’s advertising.

You also say that before the era of the 6.5 CM that 6.5 x 47 was more prevalent... and the .260.... also points I agree with and brought up.

The CM isn’t more prevalent now because it outperforms the .264s of old.

It was marketed.
Period.

I like the CM.

But I like it because I can sling its brass everywhere and not care.

That’s really the only reason I can think of.

To the average consumer that doesn’t reload.

There’s lots more reasons to like it

 

[bradb]

I like it because it's the only 6.5 of 4 that if I stick my head up my arse and for get my ammo I can go to a store and buy ammo.
The others not so much! Thought a good idea to have one gun in a "popular" clambering

 

[Grimstod]

The magical "modern" 6.5 Creedmoor is essentially a necked-up 250-3000 Ackley Improved 30-deg with a slightly longer neck and an ugly oversized extractor groove. I have run a fired 6.5 CM case through my Redding 250 AI FL die and, other than necking it down to 25 caliber, it does nothing of significance to the case body.
-

Why is that groove oversized? Seams like a bad design choice to me. Weakens the primer pocket.

 

[Stan Taylor]

Personally I don't get it the magic behind the 6.5 creedmoor but having said that I have litteraly wore out 2 reamer since it arrived.

 

[Brians356]

Why is that groove oversized? Seams like a bad design choice to me. Weakens the primer pocket.

My only notion is it was designed to better handle AR ejectors, but that's just a WAG and I know next to nothing about ARs.
-

 

[DirtySteve]

Why do I feel like I walked into another room, and forgot why I came in there?

Oh yeah the Creedmoor had gun manufactures, ammo manufacturers, and gun writers clamoring about it. I mean pick up a gun rag and there will be a 6.5 article in it. PRS guys needed a flat shooting round and built a butt load of sticks in 6.5. All of this just snow balled. And that's where babies come from..

The PRS guys are all moving toward 6 Creed and 6X47 now. So we will see where that will lead us.

 

[Delfuego]

But if you are the acclaimed shooter I think you must be....

You got me all figured out. Were you molested by a marketer? Please also fix your formatting and use paragraphs.

PRS competitors are shooting the kitchen sink too, just like F-Class and other disiplines. Dasher, BRX, BRA, 6Creed, 6x47, 6CM, 6XC, 6.5x47, 260AI, 6BR, etc, etc...