6.5 wildcat- cartridge concept

[bobcat93]

Here is something that has been clunking around in my head for a few days and want to hear some feed back.
I load for 6.5 creedmore
Ive mentioned i like to have reduced power cartridges..dont ask why..i just find it alot of fun for example
I have
221fb-223rem
17fb-17rem
30-30 - 308win
327 fed- 32s&w
357mag-38 special
And so on..
Its alot of fun to shoot both and experiment load & bullet combo.

So if i have a 6.5 creed...and now i want 6.5 grendal
The creed is about 51gr. Case capacity
A 6.5 grendal is 35gr case capacity.
Why not push the shoulder back in a creedmore case to achieve 35gr capacity and be done.
Can the gun smith chamber a barrel, and just cut off a set of dies to for a new (6.5 creedmore short)
Any of you wild cat reloaders good at squashing cases and can do it? ..
Lets see how a 35gr creedmore case looks.
And then we have no bolt head nonsense
Some one explain the pitfalls here..
It seems possible and a way to use up split neck creedmore cases

 

[L.Sherm]

Oh you can make any case you want from a parent case smaller with the right forming dies, chop saw, and neck turning equipment i do it all the time.
My question is if you want a Grendel case why not just build a Grendel, I get the wildcat thing I'm one that can't leave chit alone either lol.

 

[AWS]

Build a 6.5 BR.

 

[357Mag]

Here is something that has been clunking around in my head for a few days and want to hear some feed back.
I load for 6.5 creedmore
Ive mentioned i like to have reduced power cartridges..dont ask why..i just find it alot of fun for example
I have
221fb-223rem
17fb-17rem
30-30 - 308win
327 fed- 32s&w
357mag-38 special
And so on..
Its alot of fun to shoot both and experiment load & bullet combo.

So if i have a 6.5 creed...and now i want 6.5 grendal
The creed is about 51gr. Case capacity
A 6.5 grendal is 35gr case capacity.
Why not push the shoulder back in a creedmore case to achieve 35gr capacity and be done.
Can the gun smith chamber a barrel, and just cut off a set of dies to for a new (6.5 creedmore short)
Any of you wild cat reloaders good at squashing cases and can do it? ..
Lets see how a 35gr creedmore case looks.
And then we have no bolt head nonsense
Some one explain the pitfalls here..
It seems possible and a way to use up split neck creedmore cases

Bobcat -

Howdy !

Not in necessary order:

The online “ Powley Computer “ has a list of case capacities.
They list 6mm ARC case capacity @ 34gr H2O.
The 6mm ARC is derived from the 6.5Grendel, which is itself a wildcat based off
the same Russian case the 6PPC was originally formed from.

If you were to chamber a barrel by running an existing reamer in “short “, you would need to form your notional wildcat cases from brass that has a base diam < .470” .
The brass choices that come immediately to mind for such a project are….
7 X 64 Brenneke @ .466” base diam, and .35 Remington which has around .452” base diam brand new ( virgin Remington brand ). Both are .308 bolt face compatible, with
the .35 Remington case benefitting perhaps from a tweak to a bolt gun’s ejector
( which I have had done for shooting my .22-35 Remington wildcat ).

You wanted to see what a foreshortened wildcat of the approx case capacity you mentioned looks like ? Here is a pic of an example ( 6mm ) wildcat, which would operate in a chamber cut by running a 6mm Remington “ short “, for a nominal .454”-ish base diam. This wildcat is formed from .35/Remington brass, and has case capacity between that of a 6PPC and a 6 BR. I call this wildcat “ 6 PAC “. ( Sample pic below is of an
un-fired 6PAC case. ). I realize this example wildcat case is 6mm, but still can give some idea of what you are considering ?

Another thought, would be to run a 6.5 X 55 Swedish reamer in “ short “, for a wildcat case formed from 9.3 X 62 Mauser. This would give a case that is slightly debated
“ rimless “; that is .308 bolt face compatible. This wildcat would have perhaps more case taper and overall case capacity, than might be desired ( if shot from a gas gun ) ?


With regards,
357Mag

 

[Fuj]

Neck up the 6GT to 6.5......Dave Zimmerman won the Ridgway
VBR Championships with one just recently. Most of my Wild-
cats are based on the 284 Winchester case. Shorten them and
still have a fat boiler room. My current 7.2 Greedmore has an
easy 150 fps advantage and has pushed 90 gr bullets to 3600
fps. 130's are at 3340......Currently building a 7BR. Although not
a fan of 6.5's, a 7BR case blown out to a 6.5 dasher could be fun ??

 

[bobcat93]

Ahhh probably still less money to pick up a howa mini action 1500 in 6.5 grendal..buy brass and dies a savage pre-fit from pac-nor is like 500$
The howa mini is 600$...duhhh what am i missing.
Complicated and expensive ..or
Affordable and lots of components, full rifle available with zero lead time.
Its a hassle to deal with bolt and barrel. Then toss in funky brass
I want a 6.5 creedmore (short)
What do you want to bet..some one from hornady is reading this and they are starting ammo production and trade make paperwork already..
Hahahahaa..
Yeah..i guess i had to talk through the cloud of ideas in my head for some clarity

 

[357Mag]

Here is something that has been clunking around in my head for a few days and want to hear some feed back.
I load for 6.5 creedmore
Ive mentioned i like to have reduced power cartridges..dont ask why..i just find it alot of fun for example
I have
221fb-223rem
17fb-17rem
30-30 - 308win
327 fed- 32s&w
357mag-38 special
And so on..
Its alot of fun to shoot both and experiment load & bullet combo.

So if i have a 6.5 creed...and now i want 6.5 grendal
The creed is about 51gr. Case capacity
A 6.5 grendal is 35gr case capacity.
Why not push the shoulder back in a creedmore case to achieve 35gr capacity and be done.
Can the gun smith chamber a barrel, and just cut off a set of dies to for a new (6.5 creedmore short)
Any of you wild cat reloaders good at squashing cases and can do it? ..
Lets see how a 35gr creedmore case looks.
And then we have no bolt head nonsense
Some one explain the pitfalls here..
It seems possible and a way to use up split neck creedmore cases

Bobcat -

Howdy, again !

In my previous response, it was supposed to say “ rebated “ boat tail.

Also, please note:
- besides the fact that the example “ 6 PAC “ wildcat case was unfired,
it is also pictured before any inside neck ream; or outside neck turning were performed…
and thusly….. outside neck surface irregularity and final neck OD had not been dealt with yet.

- “ 6 PAC “ is shaped using a stock ( LEE ) 6.5 X 55 Swedish FL die ( w/ internals removed ‘ as the case forming die. Since 6PAC is formed using the bottom-most porition of the .35 Remington case, formed wildcat brass emerges from the die in near net shape; and w/ thick neck walls.

*** Inside neck ream and outside neck turning could be adjusted, to provide a wildcat case of 6.5mm final calibre ( or… a .25” cal iteration for that matter ). ***

THAT is wildcatting… w/o having to $$$ either “ custom dies “, and/or custom reamers !


With regards,
357Mag

 

[CJ6]

Or....6.5x47 (222 mag necked up) . Just a bit less capacity but pretty accurate. I have an XP chambered in this one and use it for deer.

 

[357Mag]

“ I want a 6.5 creedmore (short) “

Bobcat -

Howdy, again ! I just read your most recent post entry, quoted above.

Shortening the 6.5 Creedmore case at the bottom end…. to obtain the case capacity you seek…. would result in wildcat case that ( of necessity ) has less base diam than .470”.
It is a goodly redux in case capacity from the amount the 6.5 Creedmoor has, that you are considering… when retaining the 6.5 Creed’ neck length and shoulder angle.

There’s multiple ways to look @ the concept of a fore-shortened “ 6.5 Creedmoor “ wildcat…..

Ideas:
- The “ 6PAC “ methods mentioned above to get the case capacity of a fore-shortened 6.5 Creed, result in a wildcat w/ base diam <.470”, and a shallower than 30* shoulder angle. Case capacity would be pretty much as you specified, and the case would work with a .308 bolt face. If that approach does not meet your intended wildcat specs; then….

- As noted in the observations just above, IF you were to cut the chamber using the upper portion of a 6.5 Creedmoor reamer, you’d have the neck and shoulder diam + angle you want; but again…. base diam would need to be < .470”. This wildcat would have to be formed on something like 7 X 64 Brenneke. Case’ capacity would again meet and maybe even exceed your target capacity goal.

- IF the long straight section of the barrel at the chamber end were present on an existing 6.5 Creedmoor factory barrel…. the barrel/chamber could be shortened to provide a wildcat that ( again ) would have base diam < .470”….but would have the desired calibre, neck lg, shoulder angle & shoulder diam that you seek. Here too, 7 X 64 could work as the parent brass.

IF you simply must use .308 family brass as the parent case, you are likely looking at going with the classic wildcatting approach…. Which likely requires custom chamber and re-size reamers; and custom dies.


With regards,
357Mag

 

[No manches"]

Just get your self a 6.5x47 lapua and be done with it.

Everything is available and easy press button

 

[STOMP442]

Buying a rifle already in 6.5 Grendel would be a whole lot easier than re-inventing the wheel to duplicate Grendel performance. No custom dies, no custom reamers, no case forming. Just buy some brass and go. At the very least just buying a new bolt with the correct head dia. would be a heck of a lot easier and cheaper.

 

[Sniper338]

Yeah im on the buy a grendel and be done or buy a 6.5x47 lapua and be done. Not much thy hasnt been done or is close enough now days.

 

[bobcat93]

i still think it would be cool to squash a 6.5 creedmore case down to grendal capacity

 

[Oso]

Momma says life is like a Box of Chocolates … and so is creating a wildcat.

Recreating the wheel is perfectly fine so long as you realize that scratching an itch with a make-fun project will cost you 2x-3x what costs to buy an existing cartridge. If you are an experienced machinist / gunsmith then the cost won’t be as much.

Next Step: Figuring out cool name for new wildcat.

 

[CJ6]

6.5 Morecred.

 

[std7mag]

Sounds like a lot of work to me.

Might be easier to neck up the 6GT.

Has anyone done a 6.5-250 Savage?
Or a 6.5WSSM?

 

[Walt Krafft]

6.5 BR. Done.

 

[357Mag]

i still think it would be cool to squash a 6.5 creedmore case down to grendal capacity

Bobcat -

Howdy, once more.

If you want 6.5 Grendel case capacity in a .308 Win family case, the new wildcat case would be fairly short in o.a.l., while still having a notional .470” base diameter.

Shoulder diameter and shoulder angle chosen for the wildcat would ideally help towards reliable feeding and extraction…. and not work against them. For a magazine-fed application, such a short case o.a.l. might present challenges in feeding/ extraction ?

Consider:
One can get 34gr H2O case capacity w/ a 6.5 Grendel, which has something like a .432” shoulder diameter… .442” base diameter…. on a case w/ 1.0078” base-to-shoulder dimension. A fatter .308-based case would have an even shorter base-to-
shoulder dimension than what the ‘Grendel features. The 6BR Norma has a .9232” base-to-shoulder dimension. * As a result, your proposed .308Win-based wildcat would have a shorter than .9232” base-to-shoulder dimension; to hit the 34gr H2O case capacity goal.

With regards,
357Mag

 

[alf]

i still think it would be cool to squash a 6.5 creedmore case down to grendal capacity

The easy button is the 6.5BR.

You can still use all your wore out Crapmore cases to make your "wildcat".....

 

[No manches"]

^^^^^^^^^^
Agreed