6.5 saum from Rem 7mm saum how to do it?

[elmerdeer]

Hi guys need the steps on how to make 6.5SAUM brass from rem 7saum brass, I have 500 pieces to form.
I have a whidden full length sizing die.
My Reamer has .100 freebore and the neck is a no turn .298"

When i size down the rem brass without the expander I get hardly any runout 001-002" and if I use the expander I get 002" to 010" which i find to much.

Case length after necking down without expander is 2.045" with expander stem in its 2.037".
I dont have a micrometer to check for neck thickness but with my caliper it seems i'm getting about
.0165" neck thikness.

So what are the steps to make my brass , should I neck turn? Should I neck down using the stem in or out of my die?
What should I trim the overall length to?

And anything else I forgot?

Thank you
Elmer

 

[RonAKA]

When i size down the rem brass without the expander I get hardly any runout 001-002" and if I use the expander I get 002" to 010" which i find to much.

I have sized down lots of 7 RM cartridges to 0.264 WM. I just run them through a FL die with the expander in. I don't measure runout as this is just a hunting rifle, and I only do it because it is hard to find .264 WM brass.

My conclusion from your comments is that the brass you have must not be uniform in thickness around the neck. When you run the expander ball through it, it forces the runout to the outside, rather than the inside. To test this have you seated a bullet in a non expander ball sized case and then measured runout with the bullet in? Should tell you if that is your problem.

If neck thickness variation is the root cause, then you probably do have to turn the necks, which will increase clearance to your no turn neck. I don't do neck turning, so will leave that discussion to those that do, but I don't see a good win-win solution.

Another thought to dealing with neck thickness variation without turning, is to only partially resize the neck on fired cases. While this will not solve the thickness variation induced runout problem, it will give you a close fit to your neck in the unsized portion.

 

[Ledd Slinger]

I'm not the best expert here for sure, but here's how I set up my rifle brass on all chamberings, wildcat or SAAMI.

Neck turning:
I would recommend a neck thickness no greater than .0145" if you want more consistent neck tension. The Redding concentricity gauge is fairly inexpensive and will tell you exactly how thick your neck walls are. Always good to at least clean the necks up by turning .001" or .002" from them. This will at least knock down any high spots to ensure the wall thickness is more consistent. Nice thing about the concentricity gauge is that you can identify the thickest and thinnest points on the necks, calculate the difference, and know exactly how much you need to turn in order to even out the thickness around the entire circumference.

Setting the FL die and trim length:
Make a dummy round with a bullet jammed into to the lands and adjust the seating depth .001"-.002" at a time until it chambers with a smooth free moving bolt throw, then knock it back another .002"-.003" to avoid any trouble in the future with bullet ogive inconsistencies. Now make 3 loaded rounds and fire form the brass to the chamber. Measure the headspacing on all the fired brass and set your headspacing on your FL die to knock the sholder back .002" on the LONGEST case. Then take the fired brass with the SHORTEST OAL and after just barely touching up the face of the shortest case to ensure the face of the neck is squared, set this measurement as your trim length. Do not set a headspacing or trim length on new brass as it will lengthen significantly after being fired. You can set headspacing on new brass only if you need to knock the shoulder back initially to make the new brass chamber. But always set up trim length on fired brass.

Be sure to anneal brass regularly in order to maintain good neck tension and somewhat consistent neck growth during firing.

 

[rifleman700]

When I did my 6.5 4S / saum I used 300saum brass and neck sized down in two steps to 6.5. ( I did not FL size, just neck sized ) This did require neck turning when completed. I am not sure if the 7saum brass will need neck turning but a close inspection of the brass should tell you if you need to. If there is a noticeable doughnut at the neck shoulder junction then yes you will need to turn your necks.

Easiest way to trim necks is to use a feeler gauge to set your cut depth on your neck turning tool. At .0165" as you are stating I would use a the .015" feeler gauge to set cut depth.

 

[Shaggy357]

Size the brass so it fits in your chamber. Color the neck and shoulder area of the 7SAUM brass with a sharpie and adjust your die to come down about half way down the neck. Re-color and check the sized brass in your chamber. Repeat several times by slowly adjust the sizing die down and rechecking fit until you are able to close the bolt on your gun. Now seat a bullet in your colored brass, re-color brass and color the bullet, and see how it fits the chamber. If it goes in fine, just neck turn to uniform. If it will not go in check bullet for marks and seat deeper if necessary. If marks are on the neck showing it will not allow the round to chamber, pull the bullet, resize the case, then turn a couple .001" off the neck thickness, re-color, and try again.

I am a cheap SOB. I use military brass for my fun guns as often as possible. A box is 100 rounds and several boxes makes a batch. In the last month or so, I have used military .223/5.56 to make up 1000 .223s for the AR, 500 17 Rem, and 300 222s. I have another 500 .308s made up into 7-08s and 260 Rems. I use the method above to make brass that fits the chamber of my gun and then turn/trim/debur/prep to make then as nearly the same as possible. I have a lot of ammo to shoot over my Christmas break. Check, double check, triple check, measure thrice, and set your dies, trimmers, etc to prep your brass as perfect as possible the first time. It will save you lots of time as you go thru numerous reloads in properly made brass.

Hope this helps a little.

Steve

 

[ab_bentley]

Hi guys need the steps on how to make 6.5SAUM brass from rem 7saum brass, I have 500 pieces to form.
I have a whidden full length sizing die.
My Reamer has .100 freebore and the neck is a no turn .298"

When i size down the rem brass without the expander I get hardly any runout 001-002" and if I use the expander I get 002" to 010" which i find to much.

Case length after necking down without expander is 2.045" with expander stem in its 2.037".
I dont have a micrometer to check for neck thickness but with my caliper it seems i'm getting about
.0165" neck thikness.

So what are the steps to make my brass , should I neck turn? Should I neck down using the stem in or out of my die?
What should I trim the overall length to?

And anything else I forgot?

Thank you
Elmer

If there's clearance between the neck and chamber, shoot them. 50k psi has a away of ironing brass out. Until you have a tubing mic, you're still guessing on neck thickness.

If I were you, I'd fire off a single case with medium charge. Size the case, prime and charge, then seat a bullet. The OD on a fired case with seated bullet will give you all the information you'll need on whether you should turn necks.

Adam

 

[EBaker]

There is a multi page thread on "Snipers Hide" on how to form the brass and it will answer all of your questions. I read and reread this thread multiple time before I started on mine. I made the reduction in neck size in 3 steps so as not to crush anything or fold the neck in to the shoulder plus I neck turned all of my brass. I absolutely love mine. It has only accounted for two animals, a coyote and a fat doe....both DRT! I shoot the Berger 130 VLD Hunting bullet over a stout load of H1000. The thread on "Snipers Hide" is under (GAP 4S). Hope this helps.

Ed

 

[Ledd Slinger]

There is a multi page thread on "Snipers Hide" on how to form the brass and it will answer all of your questions. I read and reread this thread multiple time before I started on mine. I made the reduction in neck size in 3 steps so as not to crush anything or fold the neck in to the shoulder plus I neck turned all of my brass. I absolutely love mine. It has only accounted for two animals, a coyote and a fat doe....both DRT! I shoot the Berger 130 VLD Hunting bullet over a stout load of H1000. The thread on "Snipers Hide" is under (GAP 4S). Hope this helps.

Ed

Taking 3 steps to reduce the a 7mm neck to 6.5mm is a complete waste of time. I take 6.5 Grendel brass down to 6mm necks and 223 brass down to 20 cal in ONE step all the time. Run them in the FL sizer, done.

He is taking a case neck designed for .284" bullets down to a neck designed for .264" bullets. That's only .020". Pretty insignificant.

When I take .264" down to .243", I'm going even further at .021". And I'm reducing the same amount as you both with .224" down to .204"

 

[Patch700]

One thing that may differ in your situation as compared to those that are saying "I just size down and load them" is that they may be dealing with a factory chamber.. having said that , it may very well have a generous neck diameter (ie:.299-.301")

Being that yours is a known .298" and it is in that particular caliber I myself would cut the necks to .015" if this is a rifle that you expect accuracy from.

I wouldn't worry too much about brass details untill they have been fireformed ... Do yourself a huge favor and carefully measure the critical areas of your unfired brass and compare them to fired ones.. you will need these numbers later on in the sizing process etc.

Good luck

 

[Ledd Slinger]

One thing that may differ in your situation as compared to those that are saying "I just size down and load them" is that they may be dealing with a factory chamber.. having said that , it may very well have a generous neck diameter (ie:.299-.301")...

My 20 TAC is easy because I just size 223 in my die and shoot. The 7 degree shoulder angle difference sorts itself out as I shoot the rounds. No difference in accuracy from unfire-formed to fire-formed brass. Sometimes the unfire-formed brass is actually a little more accurate, but not enough of a difference to be concerned about.

The 243 LBC T40 is a little trickier as my chamber has a tight .269" neck. I run 6.5 Grendel in the FL sizer, expand the neck, turn the necks down to the false shoulder left on the neck where the new shoulder will be, then size again, load and shoot. Again, I load test while fire-forming because the difference in accuracy is negligible. Sometimes need just a little tuning once the brass makes the transformation. So that chambering is more than just size and done before the brass is completely ready, but as far as getting the neck diameter reduced .021" from .264" to .243", it is just a 'size once and done' situation. No reason to run the necks in 3 steps using different bushings to get it reduced from 6.5mm to 6mm.

...and I've never crushed a shoulder or folded a neck.

Now when I take 22 Hornet down to 20 Ackley Hornet, that's a little different story. I have to either do 2 steps or use a lot of lube and go really slow. The Hornet brass is VERY thin and weak so it does not like being reduced .020" in one shot unless you are very careful. I have crushed a handful of shoulders with the Hornet brass. But the 7mm SAUM brass that the OP will be using is much thicker and tougher and will give him no trouble reducing the neck .020" in one shot.

 

[Cmrem700]

Can you neck turn before you size down to 6.5mm?

 

[Ledd Slinger]

Can you neck turn before you size down to 6.5mm?

No. The neck wall thickness will change after being compressed so you want to get the proper measurement of the neck walls when it is 6.5mm so you know how much you need to turn off. And if you want to do it right, you want to use a neck turner with a cutter that matches the shoulder angle so you can turn down on to the shoulder which helps avoid donuts as the necks grow from firing.

Plus there's no sense in purchasing 7mm expander and turning arbors if all you need is 6.5mm. Even if you are already set up to turn 7mm necks, I wouldn't do it for the above mentioned reasons

 

[Cmrem700]

a full length bushing die does not seam to size down to the neck shoulder junction. So if you run it through a 6.5 expander will it make it all the same inside diameter? Or when you turn it will you get a thinner area just above the shoulders?

 

[Ledd Slinger]

a full length bushing die does not seam to size down to the neck shoulder junction. So if you run it through a 6.5 expander will it make it all the same inside diameter? Or when you turn it will you get a thinner area just above the shoulders?

The expander mandrel for a neck turning tool is about .001" under bullet diameter and turning mandrels are about .002" under bullet diameter to ensure nice and tight contact while turning neck wall. When you neck the case down from 7mm to 6.5mm, the inside neck diameter should be less (depending on bushing diameter) and the base of the neck could be a bit off, so the expander mandrel will iron things out to a nice straight and even diameter for neck turning. High quality 'turning' mandrels won't fit in a case neck if a person just sizes and uses an expander ball from the die. Need to run the case in the neck turner 'expander' die and mandrel first. I personally use the 21st Century Shooting neck turnin tools, but there are a lot of other good turners out there.

On another note, you will run into very tight fits on turning mandrels if you do not regularly anneal your brass. There's only .001" difference between the expander and turning mandrel so if the brass isn't annealed regularly, it will start to spring back after running the expander mandrel. When this happens, it can be very difficult to fit the case neck over the turning mandrel

 

[Cmrem700]

Thank you. I actually understood what you said, very well put. I am thinking about the 21st century turner as I need to get one.

 

[EBaker]

Yeah...well...had some extra time as it was 2 years ago. Outcome was still the same. The rifle and load are extremely good. Worked on 10-15 pieces of brass at the same time. Even thinking of redoing my 270 WSM in to this caliber. Best of luck!

 

[timeout]

Thank you. I actually understood what you said, very well put. I am thinking about the 21st century turner as I need to get one.

Get the 21st Century lathe neck turner. Don't turn the necks until after you have resized the brass. You want to turn just slightly beyond the neck-shoulder junction, into the shoulder. Measure a loaded round neck diameter and then remove enough material to allow for at least .002" clearance in the chamber.

 

[elmerdeer]

Good info guys! Thank you.
On the 21st century lathe can I use another neck Turner on it like the km or one of the sinclairs?

Elmer

 

[timeout]

Good info guys! Thank you.
On the 21st century lathe can I use another neck Turner on it like the km or one of the sinclairs?

Elmer

http://www.accurateshooter.com/gear-reviews/neck-turning-lathe-from-21st-century/

 

[Ledd Slinger]

Good info guys! Thank you.
On the 21st century lathe can I use another neck Turner on it like the km or one of the sinclairs?

Elmer

I don't think so. That wouldn't be very beneficial to John's income

Give John a call at 21st Century Shooting and he'll be more than happy to talk and get you set up with everything you'll need to get the job done right.