6.5 Grendel Reloading HELP!

[ducks-and-bucks]

Hey guys, I just finished building a 6.5 Grendel AR upper and need some experienced advice on where to start with reloading for it. If anyone has a very accurate load you would like to share that works for you, I'd love to hear it. My Grendel upper is a Satern custom bull barrel, 24 inch, 1-8.75 twist rate, 5R rifling, Satern bolt, with les baer bolt carrier group.

I have AA lapua brass, I tried 22.5 grains to 25 grains of winchester 748 in 5 grain increments, CCI BR4 primers, and topped it off with a 140 grain berger target VLD. It did not like these loads, AT ALL!! None patterned under an INCH!!!!! I don't know what powder to try next, or what powder and bullet combo to try next, there are so many combinations! Any help would be greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance.

 

[BoydAllen]

VLDs can be seating depth sensitive, which is not at all what you want for a semiautomatic. I would look at some Sierras (123 gn.?) with your 2520 and look here for more info. http://www.65grendel.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?3-6.5-Grendel-Ammunition-amp-Reloading
A friend has about what you have, and the level of recoil and the rifle's geometry makes shooting from the bench trickier than a bolt rifle. You might want to look here as well, for bench shooting accessories. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdkAiCSso9g
The same friend, has trouble packing powder, with the bullet that I mentioned and 2520 into his cases uses his Wilson seater to start the bullet, and then turns it upside down to let the powder fall "up" around the BT while he finishes seating the bullet. Slick trick....

 

[cotntop]

CFE223, 8208xbr and AR-comp seem to be the most popular. I run 123 lapua just shy of mag-length with 28.0 AR-comp. Check out Grendel forum. Hope this helps.

 

[AndrewV]

I have almost the same upper, only difference is I stayed with AA bolt carrier and went their heavy duty bolt. This load has worked well for me. 123 grn Sierras, 30.5grs. of 748, cci450 primers, Lapua brass, mag length. With this load my Grendel ar shoots in the .3's. AA2520 gave me the highest velocity, but would act strange, first 10 or so nice tight group, then a few flyers, then back to small group. First time it happened I thought it was me. Second time around knew it wasn't me. I believe with the case capacity of the Grendel 130grainers should be the upper limit weight wise. I know on the Grendel forum you will see people using heavier bullet weights, but accuracy is only good for large gongs. Enjoy your Grendel, they are fun to shoot!

Andrew

 

[BoydAllen]

Really remarkable results. I will pass them along to my friend. If he tried it, and it works for him, I will report back. Also, that is some seriously good shooting, given the limitations of the platform, relative to bolt rifle.
Boyd

 

[spclark]

140's too heavy for 6.5 Grendel unless in a long-barreled bolt gun. Even then there's not enough case capacity for best velocity range.

I messed with two 28" Walther barreled uppers a few years ago, even with 140's (JLK back then) AND a 30" 1:8 Broughton for my Gilkes-Ross out to 1,000 yards & gave up on it eventually.

Best'll be something from 107 - 120 grain, maybe 130 if you work with it to find a good combo. 6.5 Grendel's no 6.5-284 or even 260 so don't try to push it too hard & you'll do fine with that new build.

 

[Erik Cortina]

1:8.75" twist is too slow for 140's.

 

[Erik Cortina]

Thats what I figured too, they need a 1:6

Actually they need 1:8".

 

[spclark]

Actually they need 1:8".

Yep, anything slower is better suited to 120 grain, or less.

1:6... you know barrel makers who'll make you that twist? I know it's too fast for 6mm; 1:6.5's sometimes seen in 223 where folks are using 90's out to 1,000 yards.

Remember the idea is to hit your target with the bullet. Too fast a twist & oftentimes that's not what happens....

 

[DHD]

I have used that same barrel/bolt combo for a couple of years. I did not notice any velocity figures with your CFE223 loads. I know some (I am refering to Grendel shooters here) might say "I prefer accuracy to velocity" but remember that you need as much velocity as possible to get this round to perform to it's potential at longer ranges. You need both! I have only been to the 600 yard line with the Grendel, but I go there often, so I have some idea of what I am talking about with this cartridge.

AA2520 will give you velocity and accuracy, but as another poster mentioned, I too have seen strange flyers when it hammered the rest of the group. Don't know why.

XBR8208 works very well in the 107/108 weight bullets for me, but not so much with 120/123 weights.

LeverRevolution works better than any other powder, to date, in the 120/123 weights for me. I get slightly better velocity and consistant good accuracy. May give CFE223 a try. Thats the reason I wondered about the velocity you were getting. FWIW, I see 2630ish with 31.4 LVR and 120 SMK or Berger BT's. 120 Berger BT's have shot better for me than any other bullet with 120 SMK's right behind. They don't have the sexy BC's as the 123's, but they are very easy to tune.

All loads are with AA brass, 450 primers,and loaded with Forster dies.

You mentioned something about not being able to move COAL too much. Have you checked to see how far out you can seat different bullets yet. I am not refering to max mag length, I am refering to freebore. My chamber has a short freebore and I can jam most bullets if I choose and still have them fit the mag. Just mentioning it as I found some interesting loads with very low ES/SD's and consistant accuracy jamming certain bullets.

Fun little cartridge to play with, but it is a thoroughbred (or maybe I should say a beautiful petite redhead). Treat it right and it is great, but you can't make many mistakes and get away with it.......for long. I have tried all three, and the only one I don't still have are the thoroughbreds. Redheads, of course, are another story. They run at extremely high pressures and they frequently blow up.

 

[Rtheurer]

LeverRevolution works better than any other powder, to date, in the 120/123 weights for me. I get slightly better velocity and consistant good accuracy. May give CFE223 a try. Thats the reason I wondered about the velocity you were getting. FWIW, I see 2630ish with 31.4 LVR and 120 SMK or Berger BT's. 120 Berger BT's have shot better for me than any other bullet with 120 SMK's right behind. They don't have the sexy BC's as the 123's, but they are very easy to tune.

All loads are with AA brass, 450 primers,and loaded with Forster dies.

Finally!!!! Some one else who has seen the merite of Leverevolution....
Any where you can use R15, AR Comp, Varget, IMR4320, 2520. you can use Leverevolution. Its about 2/3 the size kernals of Varget and meters like a dream
Palma Shooters, NRA Service Rifle shooters, 6BR shooters, should take notice of this powder. As soon as it came out I thought i would be good for cases like this and others. Ill be testing it in my 6Fat Rat this spring.. ( 6mm Grendal case)
Unfortunatly its not yet in Quickload Data base, along with a bunch of other new powders.

RussT

 

[DHD]

LeverRevolution works better than any other powder, to date, in the 120/123 weights for me. I get slightly better velocity and consistant good accuracy. May give CFE223 a try. Thats the reason I wondered about the velocity you were getting. FWIW, I see 2630ish with 31.4 LVR and 120 SMK or Berger BT's. 120 Berger BT's have shot better for me than any other bullet with 120 SMK's right behind. They don't have the sexy BC's as the 123's, but they are very easy to tune.

All loads are with AA brass, 450 primers,and loaded with Forster dies.

Finally!!!! Some one else who has seen the merite of Leverevolution....
Any where you can use R15, AR Comp, Varget, IMR4320, 2520. you can use Leverevolution. Its about 2/3 the size kernals of Varget and meters like a dream
Palma Shooters, NRA Service Rifle shooters, 6BR shooters, should take notice of this powder. As soon as it came out I thought i would be good for cases like this and others. Ill be testing it in my 6Fat Rat this spring.. ( 6mm Grendal case)
Unfortunatly its not yet in Quickload Data base, along with a bunch of other new powders.

RussT

Please RussT. Ignorance is bliss they say!

LeverRevolution should only be used in lever actons and never for anything other than 30-30's and possibly the 35 Remington. Dangerous things might happen otherwise. If Hodgdon doesn't list it, don't ty it!

 

[chuckbuster243]

Lapua brass, cci 450 primers, IMR8208 XBR at around 28.0-28.5 grains with sierra 123 nosler 123 and hornady 123 grain bullets. All but the hornadys just under mag length, the hornadys .015 off the lands which is a good bit shorter. But work up in your rifle as always. If this combo will not shoot 1/2 Moa something is way wrong... Matt

 

[chuckbuster243]

I meant to add... I hate the ball powders in a grendel... Unless its 70 degrees all the time they shoot bad and pressure spikes in the heat.... Stay with the Temp stable stuff, 8208 and Hodgdons extreme line. That is if you like accurate and consistent at all temps... Matt

 

[DHD]

I meant to add... I hate the ball powders in a grendel... Unless its 70 degrees all the time they shoot bad and pressure spikes in the heat.... Stay with the Temp stable stuff, 8208 and Hodgdons extreme line. That is if you like accurate and consistent at all temps... Matt

So I need to get rid of all my ball powders unless it is 70 degrees or below. Well, at least I can shoot the stuff until spring when it gets too warm.

This is another example of people having different experiences with similar equipment. Take what works for you and run with it, but be safe....

Gonna go outside now to fertilize my brown grass with all of my temperature sensitive ball powders.

 

[spclark]

XBR8208 works very well in the 107/108 weight bullets for me, but not so much with 120/123 weights.

I can only wish 8208 had been around when I was messing with the 6.5 Grendel!

Since it appeared I've found it entirely satisfactory for Palma (with 155's), in my long-range 6XC (with Berger's 105VLD and Hybrid) and even in 6HAGAR in the new Hornady factory brass. I know several service rifle shooters who like it for 223 at all yard lines too.

I just might be trying it soon in a 6.5 WSSM I acquired last year but have yet to take to the line. It's a recommended product for the 243 and 25 WSSM though not for anything heavier than 120 grains in the latter. I tried it in 308 with 185SMK's & wasn't impressed so it's worthwhile noting what bullet weight ranges are most appropriate for it.

 

[chuckbuster243]

I am not saying that ball powders are not good... Dont get me wrong I have some loads that shoot great with them. I just dont like using them in cartridges that are as close to the operating limit of the rifle... The Grendel is just that... I in my own loads do not use the ball powders except in lighter 3 gun loads in my ar 223. I have some great loads in the Grendel using BLC-2 shoot 1/4 MOA till it gets above 75-80 degrees.. Then is moves out to 1 -1.5 moa and the pressure and fps increases exponentially. With 8208 It shoots the same moa and within 25-40 fps of the same at all temps... I have shot at 20 all the way to 100 degrees I think the fps is more from air densities than powder burn rate.... But as the man above me posted find something that works for YOU and run with it.

 

[JASmith]

While not directly answering the questions posed and answered in this thread, there is now a reloading manual dedicated to the Grendel. You can read about it at http://shootersnotes.com/articles/6-5-grendel-reloading-handbook/.

 

[sandwarrior]

Hey guys, I just finished building a 6.5 Grendel AR upper and need some experienced advice on where to start with reloading for it. If anyone has a very accurate load you would like to share that works for you, I'd love to hear it. My Grendel upper is a Satern custom bull barrel, 24 inch, 1-8.75 twist rate, 5R rifling, Satern bolt, with les baer bolt carrier group.

I have AA lapua brass, I tried 22.5 grains to 25 grains of winchester 748 in 5 grain increments, CCI BR4 primers, and topped it off with a 140 grain berger target VLD. It did not like these loads, AT ALL!! None patterned under an INCH!!!!! I don't know what powder to try next, or what powder and bullet combo to try next, there are so many combinations! Any help would be greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance.

First, use your 140's for your bigger 6.5's. The Grendel case isn't really big enough to launch them adequately.

Next, try some 123 Lapua's, if you can find them. If not, 123 SMK's. These are long ogives for Sierra, but they work well in this case for adequate speed. It's clearly a case of bullet efficiency, not power.

For powders, I've run up and down the gamut of powders and what I've found is the bore is too big to use slow(er) powders. Full length gas paths make a difference too. What I've come up with for my accuracy load is 28.0 gr. of 8208 behind a 123 gr. Lapua. That runs about 2620 out of an 18" barrel. But, it's a 3-land (like a 5R type land) with a long throat. IMO, Win 748 is just blastin' powder. Not really known for super-consistency.

For other bullets, Hornady makes some good ones. If you can still find 130 Golden Target bullets by Norma those work very well too. I understand they stopped making them. The idiot marketing dept. for Norma doesn't seem to understand niche markets here in America.

In any case, if all you have is 748 I would suggest moving to a lighter bullet (85-108 ) and pushing it harder.

FWIW, of the three Grendels I have owned, the Satern was the most accurate.

 

[Laurie]

Try Viht N133 too - a very good powder with 120/123s. (Can't speak as to how well it suits gas gun operation, my use has been in a Howa Mini bolt-action.) Ramshot Tac suits the cartridge very well (Bill Alexander's recommendation paired with 107/108s as to an easy way to get started with a good combination). Alliant AR-Comp is popular too - I've finally got hold of some, but haven't had the chance to load and shoot any thanks to Covid.

Note that Bill Alexander advises that the Grendel is very primer model sensitive. He recommends finding an acceptable combination that the rifle likes then retrying with every primer on the market. (Not helpful advice now in the current US SR primer shortage I know!)