6.5 BPC / 6.5 Grendel

[Vassal]

Hello,
I recently had a Savage 223 rebarreled (without the nut) using a Tubb lug and 28" Hart barrel. It is 6.5 BPC, I love the cartridge but I am having NO luck with accuracy. I tried Hornady dies first,,,they were SO off many rounds would'nt even chamber! I replaced them with Redding and that problem has been solved. Often I will get a couple in one spot and then it throws a flyer. Sometimes they are evenly globbed. It has shot around .7MOA but usually it just cracks MOA. It is in a Choate stock with an aluminum bedding block, but no Epoxy. (it shot .5 MOA before with the Savage pencil barrel.)

Another issue is the problem I am having with trying to neck size. They don't make a neck die for the Grendel. Since the case, and the shoulder angle, is the same as a 6PPC (which is shorter) I figured I could use a PPC bushing die to neck size, It doesn't work! the shoulder makes contact. I can't figure why that would be BUT,,,?

I guess what I am hoping for is suggestions for neck sizing the 6.5BPC (AKA GRENDEL)

The accuracy may improve with load development. I haven't done much experimenting with charges, and I haven't been able to any with neck tension. It has been pretty frustrating trying to get this thing going and heading home from the range with 2" groups at 200! I do better than that with $100 military guns built for Russian peasents!

 

[15Tango]

I wouldn't put any blame in the dies Being Hornady, they're what I'm using for my Grendel and they're fantastic.

From reading online about the BCP a bit, it sounds like it's not exactly a Grendel, it's a Grendel with tighter chamber tolerances which would explain why you're having chambering issues with Grendel dies - the brass isn't being sized down enough to fit in the tighter chamber. Again, not Hornady's fault.

Sounds like the solution might be dies specific to the BPC chamber, either that or have your smith chamber it with a Grendel or 6.5 LBC reamer.

Wayne

 

[TX65]

What are you trying to shoot when you say you can't get accuracy?

Try the Lapua 108 Scenar with 27.6 grains of N133 with a CC450.

 

[Vassal]

I read the reviews about Hornady dies and alot of people don't have any trouble BUT it was DEFINITELY the dies. they loaded .007" or MORE out. I check the headspace to set the dies {bump it .001"} (along with other measurements) it was not that, it was the runout. The basic set of Redding dies solved the problem. I love Hornady but these dies were HORRIBLE. I also sent back their concentricity guage because the design is not what I wanted. I want to read runout on the bullet/neck NOT the shoulder! That tool will work if you learn its quirks,,, but others are better. I'll get an H&H here shortly - (I hope!)

In terms of loads I have been using MKINGS 120
and AMAX123 mostly (though I also have played with the Speer 120SP) I have been using CCI SRmag or TULA223 primers (they seem about the same) I started with TAC (29 to 30.3) but have moved to 2520 ( 31 to 31.5) I am getting 2775 to 2840 FPS out of my 28" barrel. I have also tried just kissing the lands up to jammed. it is 1 in 9" twist HART barrel. I've been thinking about a different weight class. but that probably isn't the problem. It shoots just under MOA pretty consistently - the "better" groups have been three shots (i.e. luck)

I just ordered a metal trigger guard and am going to try bedding the rifle. It may help but it already has an aluminum bedding block.

This thing weighs more than I do, as such if it won't shoot better than it does its useless! If I could even get .7 MOA consistenly I at least wouldn't feel so bad. It shot .5MOA with the SAVAGE factory pencil barrel. AHHH!

Grendel shooters please help. Especially 6.5PPC/BPC shooters!

 

[15Tango]

You're getting 2840 with a 120 class? Holy smokes. I know 2520 is the powder to use in the Grendel but that's very impressive for a 120 grain.

That cartridge is inherently very accurate, it makes me wonder if something is wrong with your rifle because it sounds like you know what you're doing and it all sounds like the right thing to do. A 9 twist should be okay for the 120s at pretty much any velocity so that shouldn't be it.

What distance are you shooting? I've had rifles that wouldn't impress me at 100 but really came around at 300. You could always try some sort of flat base bullet if you're going for shorter range, or maybe even something like the 100 grain Varminter or a 95 VMax if you want to try a lighter boat tail. The 95 VMax is plenty accurate from my observations.

The only other thing I can think of is to slow it down, that's awful fast for a 120 out of that cartridge and it might just be the cause.

Wayne

 

[TX65]

As far as your velocity,,, not surprising in a bolt gun.

The 108 scenar on top of N530 runs just over 3000 fps in a 29 inch barrel bolt gun seated to 2.360" (AR-15 SHOOTERS DO NOT ATTEMPT).

As far as the 120 Match King,, that bullet typically likes to jump,,, I would back them off and try .005", .010" and .015" off the lands.

If you want proven accuracy loads to try,,,

Take 108 Lapua Scenars and load with 27.6 grains of N133 or try the Nosler 100 grain ballistic tip with 29.5 grains of H322. Photo 1 is a group that Jeff Quinn of Gunblast did with the 100 BT and H322 in the AR. Photo 2 is a group I did at 660 yards with my bolt gun.

 

[Vassal]

hey guys thanks for the responses. I have been wondering about the rifle myself. The work was done by a Gunsmith with whom I have no experience. I just don't know; thats frustrating.
I have been shooting mostly at 300 to 400. I did do some shooting at 200. I probably need to see what it does at 100 since I am using a VX1 which has no paralax adjustment. That will definitely be a reduction in accuracy at range, but I am very careful with my face-weld, and it not the biggest culpret. I just feel so silly shooting at 100yd!
That 600yd group is AWESOME! I would like one like that at 300!
I will definitely try jumping the 120Mkings a coulple thou. I considered it but have yet to try.
I hope not to need lighter bullets but at this point I've gotta take whatever I can get.
I really appreciate the input and I will post back with some results when I go next time. I will probably shoot some at 100, but then move to 200 and plan on sticking there untill I get settled on whatever "best" I can determine.
I should have posted a reminder like the wise TX did.
THE LISTED LOADS ARE NOT FOR SEMI-AUTOS, AND ARE MAX FOR MY BOLTGUN!

 

[Vassal]

I got some help from you guys so I figured I would supply an update. After MUCH confusion (and being treated poorly by Choate) I got ahold of a Savage tech that was able to help me out. I had been using th wrong trigger guard for this stock! How I missed that and the resultingly skewed bedding is a wonder. I recieved and installed the proper one, and bedded the action in Acraglass gel (others wont use it but it has always worked for me.) It worked again!

I went to the range to check it out and got some promising groups with test ammo so I loaded up some more with 2520, CCI450, and 123Amax also 120 MKings. There was a little breeze but not bad. I was able to get 5 in 1.1" with the MKings and 3 in .2" with the AMax at 300YD! That is BY FAR the best shooting I have ever done. Based on my experience with the gun I am certain that it will shoot just about anything well and clearly some things REALLY well. Time for an improved optic!

Thanks again!

 

[Malchira]

Vassal,

Since you specifically mentioned neck dies, thought I'd mention that Wilson does make one. Like (I believe) all of their dies, it's an arbor press model, but it's available and uses interchangeable neck bushings.

Sinclair has them.