6.5 5r vs 4 groove

[joejo]

has anyone here actually found a 5r in an 8 twist to perform better than a standard 4 groove. i have shot out several krieger 8 twist #17's in my 260 and was thinking of trying a 5r. i have had good luck with the 4 groove but was just wanting to try something different.

 

[BigDMT]

I've had 2 rifles with 5R barrels in the past (7mm and 30 cal) and both shot excellent. The copper and carbon cleans up in the bore better than anything I've ever used before. I almost didn't believe the barrels were actually clean the first couple of times because white patches were coming out so soon, but sure enough, they were clean

 

[GSPV]

+1

The advantage is that they clean up easier and more completely.

 

[scott_at_vortex]

First let me say that besides my own experience I have no proof to back this statement up and it honestly can just be a coincidence. So, this has been my experience- I have had great luck with 5R's in 7mm and .308, but 5R's I have tried in 6.5 and 6mm are a different story. I have had much better luck with 4 groove barrels in 6.5 and 6mm(better velocity,better accuracy, and less temperamental).

Like I said, this could just be (bad) luck of the draw with the combined four 5r 6.5 and 6mm barrels I have tried,IDK.

 

[JRS]

Makes no difference at all. Like the late Gale McMillan said: "when you get a good barrel, you get a good barrel". Barrel manufactures will give you whatever your heart desires.

 

[flatlander]

I'm kinda curious about Scott's experiences with 5R bbls in 6 & 6.5mm. Prior to last year, I'd never used a 5R on any of my own rifles. However, a customer reported such good results with a Dasher bbl in 5R that I did for him that I decided to try one in Dasher on one of my BAT 3L prone rifles. I've worked at finding a good load for Berger 105 Hybrids in this one - as well as for another 5R in 6x47 I did for my DTA SRS - without much success. Not sure what the deal is with the hybrids & 5R bbls, but both of these barrels shoot Berger 105 VLDs & DTAC 115s very well indeed.

I've still got Krieger 4-groove bbls in Dasher & 6x47 for the BAT 3L - if I can find the time this spring, I think it'd be worthwhile to pull the 5R and test both the 4-gr bbls with Hybrids. If they both shoot this bullet better than the 5R, then I'll know there's something up. If not - well, then I'm no worse off, except for the time spent testing.

 

[joejo]

i think i was hoping it would indeed clean easier like some guys have posted. i have a really hard time getting my 4 grooves clean. just looking at the design of a 5r style it looks like it should clean out easier. i could be completely wrong about this but, you would think that if there is more rifling contact there would be less chance of copper being removed from the bullet.

if someone here says their 5r 6.5mm barrel shoots as good as any 4 groove they have had i may try one. i just hate to mess with something that works.

 

[JRS]

Why and how would a 5 groove barrel be easier to clean than a 4 groove? If anything, the additional groove in the 5 groove barrel would hold more copper. The copper that gets embedded into the very depths of the grooves is impossible to remove anyway. Easy vs hard cleaning of a barrel is due to the finish lapping on the inside. It has nothing at all to due with the number of grooves. Once one starts using abrasives such as JB in their barrels, they little by little remove the just right finish the barrel maker works so hard to achieve to reduce fouling.

 

[BigDMT]

Why and how would a 5 groove barrel be easier to clean than a 4 groove? If anything, the additional groove in the 5 groove barrel would hold more copper. The copper that gets embedded into the very depths of the grooves is impossible to remove anyway. Easy vs hard cleaning of a barrel is due to the finish lapping on the inside. It has nothing at all to due with the number of grooves. Once one starts using abrasives such as JB in their barrels, they little by little remove the just right finish the barrel maker works so hard to achieve to reduce fouling.

We are talking about 5R rifling, not 5 groove. Although I suppose 5R rifling could have 5 grooves and would still be easier to clean.

Look up the shape of the 5R rifling grooves vs. Traditional grooves and you will clearly see why they clean easier.

Traditional grooves use 90 degree shaped cuts that make it hard to get copper from the corners of the grooves. The sides of the grooves in 5R rifling are angled which makes the copper much more accesible to brush bristles and patches. Look it up and you'll see what I'm talking about.

The 5R rifling also induces less stress to the bullet jacket. Its a genius design really

 

[BigDMT]

By definition, 5R rifling is 5-groove, the lack of opposing lands directly on opposite side of the projectile is the main reason it induces less deformation of the jacket/projectile:

Yeah I just read that. I thought you could get it in different amounts of grooves. Guess not.

Any odd number of grooves is supposed to induce less jacket stress. Pretty sure Lilja makes some 3 groove 243 barrels. Though I'm not a huge fan of Lilja personally.

 

[Rtheurer]

Makes no difference at all. Like the late Gale McMillan said: "when you get a good barrel, you get a good barrel". Barrel manufactures will give you whatever your heart desires.

Completly agree with JRS. I have been a true ODD number land and groove fan for a long time. Recently I have purchased some 4 groove barrels and find that is just does not matter. A good barrel is a good barrel.

THose of us with bore scopes may agree that the hardest part of cleaning copper out of the barrel is in that 90* corner where the land and groove meet. It seems the 5R and 5C are easier to clean in that respect. But I see no better or worse with the accuracy of each type.

RussT

 

[jonbearman]

I built a remington switch barrel this summer with a shilen canted rifled barrel and it broke in after 6 shots and clean up is a snap.The gun(6BR) is very accurate and fun to shoot,I wouldnt be afraid to try a 5r barrel at all.

 

[Desert Fox]

The 8 twist 5R Krieger barrel on my 6.5-47 Lapua does not foul much and easy to clean. So is my Pac-nor 12 twist 3 grove Super Match on my 308. Both barrel shoots light out.

 

[Coolhand]

Schneider P5 or is it 5P ( I can never remember ) , polygon ( just to muddy the waters further ) barrels clean easy too despite what the urban myths say . BTW , they shoot pretty darn good to , I currently have 3 x 30" .308 Palma Barrels & 2 x 28" .308 Palma Barrels .
We lament the fact that we can no longer source the original 5R Obermeyer Barrels down here , the old timers still talk about them in hushed and reverent tones.
I have been lucky to have tried just about every groove configuration known to man , and as some already stated , "A good barrel is a good barrel .''

I also have a Schneider .308 6 groove barrel which is about 10 years old and has never been on a receiver , I am saving that one for when I retire , the last one I had shot centres all day and did not seems to care what it was fed. There is no telling if this second on will shoot but I am betting on Gary Schneider.

I am currently shooting in a .260 which has a 1:8 26" 6 groove barrel (Maddco) , well I got my moneys worth and cleans a dream.



regards
Mike.