6.5-284 questions

[Woody1]

This has been a real head scratcher for me. Feel like I’m missing the obvious but here’s the story:
Set of Redding bushing dies won’t bump my shoulders without getting crazy thin on my shell holder. Inconsistent bump and figured it was my approach on the shell holder being with a grinder. My shell holder finally gives up and after getting a stuck case out of my die I decide to order another die. Pick up a SAC 284 die with a .290 bushing. According to the guy at SAC this is what I need. They advertise their die is .015 shorter and all that jazz. New brass measures 1.787. Once fired is moving out to 1.790. I can not get that brass to move back ANY. I’m sizing but not moving shoulders. The chances of having 2 sets of bad dies are slim. Anyone have any ideas?

 

[mgunderson]

Does your fired and sized brass still chamber in the rifle? How are you measuring the shoulder set back. Have you checked the chamber with a headspace gage? I like to check the chamber and sizing measurements to the headspace gage. Keeps all the squirrels under control.

 

[Walt Krafft]

What he said, does it fit?

 

[SBS]

1. Are these neck bushing dies or FL bushing dies? Redding NK bushing dies won't touch shoulder --don't know about SAC.
2. How many times is the brass fired since annealing? Brass can get so hard that it springs back as it leaves a FL or body die and just won't size down unless annealed.

 

[C.E.Smith043]

Just for a test, take the neck bushing out and try it and see if it moves the shoulder more.

 

[C.E.Smith043]

2. How many times is the brass fired since annealing? Brass can get so hard that it springs back as it leaves a FL or body die and just won't size down unless annealed.

^^^^ this also. Very good point.

Actually a lot of good advice from everyone

 

[Woody1]

I don’t have my notebook so these numbers are off memory. There’s a good chance they’re wrong because I suffer from CRS.

With a hornady headspace gauge I’m measuring new Lapua brass at 1.787. I’ve got some used brass that was fired in another gun. If the brass is over 1.793 it will no longer chamber. I’m not measuring COAL, just from the neck to the base.

 

[Woody1]

I anneal after every firing.

 

[Woody1]

1. Are these neck bushing dies or FL bushing dies? Redding NK bushing dies won't touch shoulder --don't know about SAC.
2. How many times is the brass fired since annealing? Brass can get so hard that it springs back as it leaves a FL or body die and just won't size down unless annealed.

I anneal after every firing. Will chamber the brass after firing. SAC die is supposedly a FL die. The Redding I have both NK and FL, I’d have to revisit that set to see what I was doing. I talked to Redding and he suggested sanding the die a few thousands. I didn’t feel like that was how it should have been so I ordered the SAC.

 

[C.E.Smith043]

Not saying this is what you are doing, but I learned a long time ago to not mix brass from other rifles. Especially ones that were not cut with the same reamer within the same time frame.

Personally, I start with new brass. Fire it 2x and then start to find how much bump I need. I use Erik C. Method seen here.

 

[fisherman987]

You need to take your once fired brass and load it back up with no shoulder bump and shoot again until you reach the point where the bolt doesn't want to close on the brass after it's fired. Once that occurs, strip you bolt of the ejector and fire control and measure base to shoulder of that same piece of brass, then see if you can bump the shoulder back by .0005 increments and check using the Wheeler bolt drop method when the bolt just is able to drop under it's own weight on that same piece of brass. That will be your actual touch point using that brass in that rifle. You should then be able to bump the shoulder back.0015 to .002 and you'll be good to go.

 

[Woody1]

You need to take your once fired brass and load it back up with no shoulder bump and shoot again until you reach the point where the bolt doesn't want to close on the brass after it's fired. Once that occurs, strip you bolt of the ejector and fire control and measure base to shoulder of that same piece of brass, then see if you can bump the shoulder back by .0005 increments and check using the Wheeler bolt drop method when the bolt just is able to drop under it's own weight on that same piece of brass. That will be your actual touch point using that brass in that rifle. You should then be able to bump the shoulder back.0015 to .002 and you'll be good to go.

I understand what you’re saying and appreciate the advise but I’m not understanding why I can’t move brass back to new dimensions? I can agree that I don’t and won’t move it back that far, but I would think that die (or dies) should be able to? Zero issues with any other rifle I’m loading for

 

[fisherman987]

There is such a thing as bumping the shoulder back to far which can lead to case head separation. Die makers are making the die so that it will bump the shoulder where it needs to be and not excessively. The problem is that often the unfired virgin brass is set way back by the factory so that it will fit in any chamber. Then it's up to you to fire form it to your specific chamber which could very well end up 7-8 thousands longer than when it came out of the box. There would be no need for the die to be able to bump the shoulder back that far and it wouldn't even be safe. If you do what I suggested and your die can bump the shoulder up to .003 once it's fully fireformed, then the die is doing exactly what it is designed for and you'll have safe and accurate reloads.

 

[SBS]

I understand what you’re saying and appreciate the advise but I’m not understanding why I can’t move brass back to new dimensions? I can agree that I don’t and won’t move it back that far, but I would think that die (or dies) should be able to? Zero issues with any other rifle I’m loading for

Standard FL dies won't move brass back to new dimensions. They are designed for resizing brass that was only fired in your rifle when new. If fired when new in a chamber other than yours, then it's a crapshoot if standard FL dies can fit it to your chamber. That's what small base (SB) dies are made for. They get it back pretty close to factory dimensions. SB dies used on a steady basis for your rifle will shorten the life of your brass since it works it a lot. As C.E.Smith043 said, best to stick with brass originally fired in your rifle.

 

[mgunderson]

Many people back in the day had the bottom of the resizing die machined off. If the shell holder doesn't do it, machine it off. You have an extra set of dies. This is one of the more notorious designs for die issues.

Additionally, I always liked mine with a little extra neck clearance.

 

[Walt Krafft]

There are a lot of different 6.5x284 chambers out there. That very well could be what you are fighting.

 

[swd]

Either your headspace is too short or the die is too long. More than likely the die is long. I've seen it many times and taken .005"-.015" off the bottom of many dies. The worst I ever saw was I had a client with an RCBS 7WSM sizer than needed .027" taken off the bottom before it would set the shoulder back.

 

[LCazador]

When you measure the fired brass headspace remove the primer before doing so. Set the sizing die to abut the shell holder firmly. Then full length size the case with that die setting and measure the shoulder set back. What press are you using? You may have a short chamber. Do you know who did chamber work?

 

[dthomas]

Also make sure you are using the correct sac bushing. There dies use a bushing that resizes the neck and the shoulder.