6.5-284 or 338 lapua for 1000 yard
- Thread starter jelen1
- Start date
I think you should look seriously at the straight .284. With the advent of the new Berger 180 VLD bullet, this round is out shooting lots of others.
i second that. 338 lapua will be very expensive and i think lacks in the accuracy department--especially when you go up against some of the other benchrest rounds. 6.5x284 is rough on barrels. .284 win is an excellent round, great bullets, and brass (lapua, and norma). you will get good barrel life out of it also
If you are going to build a 1000 yd. light rifle, the cartridges that you mentioned don't work very well and are not winning very many matches. Due to the recoil, it's really hard to get off your 5 rounds before the conditions change. The modified 6 br cases are winning most of the matches. A .284 Shehane would work but due to the overall length, you need to find an action that has a pretty port in order to load quickly enough.
In a 40+ pound heavy rifle, a .338 Lapua would work, only if Berger or someone would ever get the much anticipated bullet up and running. But even then you need to spend a fortune building a rifle that would be competitive using that cartridge.
It might be hard to develop the enthusiasm for the smaller cartridges, but they really do compete much better and aren't nearly as high maintenance.
In a 40+ pound heavy rifle, a .338 Lapua would work, only if Berger or someone would ever get the much anticipated bullet up and running. But even then you need to spend a fortune building a rifle that would be competitive using that cartridge.
It might be hard to develop the enthusiasm for the smaller cartridges, but they really do compete much better and aren't nearly as high maintenance.
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The 6.5-284 is a perfectly good choice for a 1000-yard rifle. While the 7mms have done very well at recent F-Class Nationals, the 6.5-284 is used by many of the nation's top shooters and it carried the USA team to second place in the worlds.
For a true heavy gun, in the 1K benchrest game, you can be competitive with anything from a 22BR all the way up to a 300 belted magnum. While the 6mm Dasher has some big recent wins, If you check the overal stats for the whole season, the big 30s are still the winningest class of calibers at 1000 yards.
I don't think it's correct to say that the 6BR improved cases are "winning most of the matches" though they have done surprisingly well at both Williamsport and at the recent NBRSA 1K Nationals.
I would agree that the .338 Lapua is bigger than you need and the components are very expensive.
For a true heavy gun, in the 1K benchrest game, you can be competitive with anything from a 22BR all the way up to a 300 belted magnum. While the 6mm Dasher has some big recent wins, If you check the overal stats for the whole season, the big 30s are still the winningest class of calibers at 1000 yards.
I don't think it's correct to say that the 6BR improved cases are "winning most of the matches" though they have done surprisingly well at both Williamsport and at the recent NBRSA 1K Nationals.
I would agree that the .338 Lapua is bigger than you need and the components are very expensive.
After competing in the NBRSA 1K Nationals a few weeks ago I have concluded that two rifles, one heavy and one light, are not enough.
I brought my 284 Shehane lightgun this year to Sacramento and my 300 Ackley Improved heavy gun. In the perfect conditions we had I would have been more competitive with an improved 6mm in light. In the future I'll have the 7mm with me and a 6mm Improved for backup so I can use the appropriate caliber for the conditions in light gun class.
I've found my 300 Ackley heavy gun shoots well in all conditions. I love the big 30's in a 50lb gun with a brake. No need to change that...in fact I'm pulling the Obermeyer barrel I shot at the Nationals and won't put it on again until next year
This is not an inexpensive sport I'm finding.
Chuck
I brought my 284 Shehane lightgun this year to Sacramento and my 300 Ackley Improved heavy gun. In the perfect conditions we had I would have been more competitive with an improved 6mm in light. In the future I'll have the 7mm with me and a 6mm Improved for backup so I can use the appropriate caliber for the conditions in light gun class.
I've found my 300 Ackley heavy gun shoots well in all conditions. I love the big 30's in a 50lb gun with a brake. No need to change that...in fact I'm pulling the Obermeyer barrel I shot at the Nationals and won't put it on again until next year
This is not an inexpensive sport I'm finding.
Chuck
As much as I like the 6.5's and 6mm's if I'm building a dedicated long range F-class gun it's going to be a 7mm. One guy here is building a .284 win. and I'm either doing a 7 short mag or the .284. The .284 Win. you will get more barrel life out of than the mag and also the 6.5x284.
I've got a .338 Lapua on my shop test rifle and it's a hammer. That it being a caliber that might not shoot accurately? I will debate. You have to ask yourself what do you consider accurate also. My gun will shoot in the .2's and low .3's consistently. Yes it will cost more to reload for etc....but it will run neck and neck with the 7's and depending on velocity will edge the 7mm out. Also recoil will be more. To bad you cannot use a muzzle brake in F-Class matches. I've shot the .338 Lapua out to 1200 yards and it would be tough to beat but again the only two short comings that I see is the cost of the components and recoil.
Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels
Nate, The .300 Win. is a good choice also. I've shot a customers gun several times in .300 Win. and he has the 210gr. Bergers going 3000fps and it is very competitive but I will take the 7mm over the .30 personally.
I've got a .338 Lapua on my shop test rifle and it's a hammer. That it being a caliber that might not shoot accurately? I will debate. You have to ask yourself what do you consider accurate also. My gun will shoot in the .2's and low .3's consistently. Yes it will cost more to reload for etc....but it will run neck and neck with the 7's and depending on velocity will edge the 7mm out. Also recoil will be more. To bad you cannot use a muzzle brake in F-Class matches. I've shot the .338 Lapua out to 1200 yards and it would be tough to beat but again the only two short comings that I see is the cost of the components and recoil.
Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels
Nate, The .300 Win. is a good choice also. I've shot a customers gun several times in .300 Win. and he has the 210gr. Bergers going 3000fps and it is very competitive but I will take the 7mm over the .30 personally.
In 1,000 yard shooting, BC rules. A high BC bullet retains velocity better, giving it a shorter time of flight to the target, which gives the wind less time to act on the bullet.
The velocity most commonly seen with high BC bullets is 2950 fps, most chamberings used in 1,000 yard can hit this velocity and most are accurate around this velocity. This is due to barrel harmonics, most barrels have a sweet spot at 2950 fps. There is another node up around 3100 fps but not too many chamberings will reach that velocity without a large case volume for caliber or a very stiff load.
First starting out you may want to opt for one of the easier chamberings. The 6mm BR and it's variants (6mm Dasher, 6mm BRX) will all reach 1,000 yards with a high degree of accuracy, are not particularily difficult to load for, are relatively easy on barrels, have light recoil to make gun handling easier, and have been proven in competition. Best overall choice maybe not, best starting of choice maybe so.
The 6 X 47 Lapua wildcat (based on the 6.5 X 47 Lapua) may be another good choice, easier to hit target velocities, and some loads have proven to be very accurate.
The 6.5 X 284 is my personnal favorite, despite eating barrels at a rapid pace. I have found it easy to develop a good load (only took about 1/2 the life of the first barrel to hit on the ES/SD sweet spot ;D) and have only needed to test the load when changing barrels or lot numbers of powder. A few shots accross the chrono and done. I wish it had a little longer neck with the shoulder pushed back just a touch for a little less case capacity.
The straight .284 is making progress in competition, but I imagine the recoil of trying to hit 2950 fps with a 180 gr bullet makes gun handling a little more challenging in a light rifle. Haven't gone there yet, the 6.5 works so well for me I'm loathe to try something new.
I think all of the .30s work, and whichever one reaches 2950 (or the 3100 fps range) with at least a 90% case fill is a viable choice. I think the design of the .300 RSAUM has about the most ideal proprtions amiong the .30s with something in the 190 gr range. Now that Norma is making brass it would seem a good choice.
.338s? Well, I have a .338 RUM that when the barrel was fresh would print .3s with a 250 gr Lapua Scenar at 2950 fps. It was a chore to shoot in a lighter rifle, and made printing a small group very difficult from the rifle handling standpoint. And with a long string barrel heat is an issue, did one match with 20 round strings which made the barrel hot and me sore. I feel it has more than enough accuracy to compete though. The same would be true for the .338 Lapua. Maybe in a 40 lb rifle...
Anyhow.
Starting off you'll want to adhere to the KISS principle, a chambering that doesn't entail a lot of tinkering with brass and a lot of time in load developement so your time can be spent improving your skill set. The 6mm BR or the .300 RSAUM are probably the simplest choices, followed by the 6.5 X 284 (even with the limited barrel life) and straight .284.
With high quality brass you should be able to go with a no turn neck chamber, and if you talk to Dave Kiff up at PTG you can get a reamer to work with the dies of your choice. My reamer is dimensioned for a .297 neck and Redding dies. .297 might be a touch tight so I watch my case neck thickess. Buy the reamer, you will have to replace the barrel at some time and it makes duplicating the chamber a lot simpler.
Finally, regardless of what action, barrel and stock you choose, none of it will work properly without quality smithing, period dot the end. No matter the quality of the components, it won't work right with bad or even average smithing.
The result of the excellent smithing on my first full on custom rifle was I was wondering what was wrong because there was only one very small hole in the paper at 100 with the first four shoots out of the rifle and then holding over 1" to see if I was actually on paper, thought the scope broke or something.
The velocity most commonly seen with high BC bullets is 2950 fps, most chamberings used in 1,000 yard can hit this velocity and most are accurate around this velocity. This is due to barrel harmonics, most barrels have a sweet spot at 2950 fps. There is another node up around 3100 fps but not too many chamberings will reach that velocity without a large case volume for caliber or a very stiff load.
First starting out you may want to opt for one of the easier chamberings. The 6mm BR and it's variants (6mm Dasher, 6mm BRX) will all reach 1,000 yards with a high degree of accuracy, are not particularily difficult to load for, are relatively easy on barrels, have light recoil to make gun handling easier, and have been proven in competition. Best overall choice maybe not, best starting of choice maybe so.
The 6 X 47 Lapua wildcat (based on the 6.5 X 47 Lapua) may be another good choice, easier to hit target velocities, and some loads have proven to be very accurate.
The 6.5 X 284 is my personnal favorite, despite eating barrels at a rapid pace. I have found it easy to develop a good load (only took about 1/2 the life of the first barrel to hit on the ES/SD sweet spot ;D) and have only needed to test the load when changing barrels or lot numbers of powder. A few shots accross the chrono and done. I wish it had a little longer neck with the shoulder pushed back just a touch for a little less case capacity.
The straight .284 is making progress in competition, but I imagine the recoil of trying to hit 2950 fps with a 180 gr bullet makes gun handling a little more challenging in a light rifle. Haven't gone there yet, the 6.5 works so well for me I'm loathe to try something new.
I think all of the .30s work, and whichever one reaches 2950 (or the 3100 fps range) with at least a 90% case fill is a viable choice. I think the design of the .300 RSAUM has about the most ideal proprtions amiong the .30s with something in the 190 gr range. Now that Norma is making brass it would seem a good choice.
.338s? Well, I have a .338 RUM that when the barrel was fresh would print .3s with a 250 gr Lapua Scenar at 2950 fps. It was a chore to shoot in a lighter rifle, and made printing a small group very difficult from the rifle handling standpoint. And with a long string barrel heat is an issue, did one match with 20 round strings which made the barrel hot and me sore. I feel it has more than enough accuracy to compete though. The same would be true for the .338 Lapua. Maybe in a 40 lb rifle...
Anyhow.
Starting off you'll want to adhere to the KISS principle, a chambering that doesn't entail a lot of tinkering with brass and a lot of time in load developement so your time can be spent improving your skill set. The 6mm BR or the .300 RSAUM are probably the simplest choices, followed by the 6.5 X 284 (even with the limited barrel life) and straight .284.
With high quality brass you should be able to go with a no turn neck chamber, and if you talk to Dave Kiff up at PTG you can get a reamer to work with the dies of your choice. My reamer is dimensioned for a .297 neck and Redding dies. .297 might be a touch tight so I watch my case neck thickess. Buy the reamer, you will have to replace the barrel at some time and it makes duplicating the chamber a lot simpler.
Finally, regardless of what action, barrel and stock you choose, none of it will work properly without quality smithing, period dot the end. No matter the quality of the components, it won't work right with bad or even average smithing.
The result of the excellent smithing on my first full on custom rifle was I was wondering what was wrong because there was only one very small hole in the paper at 100 with the first four shoots out of the rifle and then holding over 1" to see if I was actually on paper, thought the scope broke or something.
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