6.5-284 Barrel Too Hot!

[NealWright]

Hello, I'm new learning on this ... but am struggling with this one.

I have an F'Class Savage ... does everything I want, but I can't control the barrel heat. 10rd in 10min is very warm, 5 more ... and it's smoking.

This year I wanted to reduce my loads to see if that made a difference. I was 48g of H4350 on 120g Sierra/A'Max ... This year I'm trying 44g of H4350, on 140g Nosler.

I recently ran out of H4350 ... so I'm looking to see if changing to Magnum powder might help the barrel heat? H1000/MagPro, etc? Any insight ... could changing powder that dramatically improving my barrel heat?

Thanks, Neal

 

[Shynloco]

Just a thought...have you considered trying some VVN150 or N160 powder? I use it on my 6.5x55 that has a Hart Match Barrel and don't have any "over heating" issues.

 

[bozo699]

Neal,
I bought the same rifle last year, I shoot 52.5 grains of h-4831 with 139 Scenars, 5-7 sighter's plus my 10 record rounds and it's hot but not dangerously hot, remember your shooting 14 grains or so more powder than the little dashers so you cant compare to them, also 52.5 grains of h-4831 is a top charge if you try that powder reduce by at least 10% and work up hope this helps.
Wayne.

 

[1967spud]

the powder you are using is a on the fast side for that claibre try the 4831 sc 51.5 grains with te 140 g amax awesome out to 1200 yards

 

[kyreloader]

I shot H1000 for the reasons that you stated. 56.5g of H1000 with 140g bullets was my match load in Lapua brass.

 

[NealWright]

Sounds like it's a new powder choice

I'm not shooting for max velocity. I only shoot out to 300yd so far, and obviously have plenty to hit that. I was hoping this year reducing my load significantly would make a difference ... but honestly I think it's the same.

I didn't think there was much difference between H4350 & H4831sc? That's the reason I was looking to go all the way to H1000 ... especially with the obnoxious 30" barrel on these things.

Any input with that criteria, which (H4831sc or H1000) I might be happier in trying first? Limited budget says only one powder trial at a time.

Thanks, Neal

 

[archerross]

I've tried H1000 behind 3 different bullets with marginal success in my 6.5-284. H4831sc, on the other hand has proven to be my goto powder with 142 SMKs and 140 Accubonds. I'm going to try N165. Apparently it is a bit cooler and cleaner than H4831sc.

 

[TonyR]

Neal.
You might want to try either IMR7828SSC or RL-22 with those heavy bullets. Both work well in the 284 size cases and larger with heavy bullets and long barrels. VVN560 and Norma MRP might also be good to try. What is your loaded round overall length with the Noslers?

 

[NealWright]

My memory is very poor ... but I believe OAL was 3.169(?).

Another frustration with the Savage is the throat depth. With 140g Nosler CC, I can get .030" of bearing surface inside the case neck ... while touch the rifle lands. I've arbitrarily decided that .090" is the least amount I want in the case neck. Rifle does continue to shoot better, the further out I put the bullet.

Thanks for the continued insight. I might poke around a couple gun shops, and see how available VV powder is, but generally my only options are Hodgdon.

Thanks, Neal

 

[TonyR]

If Hodgdon is the only choice then try H4831 or H4831SC. I used the H4831SC with the 139gr Scenars and it has performed well at 1000 yards at 2950fps from a 31 inch 1:8.5 Krieger. Don't worry about the bullets being way out in the case. They will shoot fine out there but do try some different seating depths once you find a powder charge that shows good vertical. I generally start testing conventional boattail bullets just off the lands but sometimes a big jump like 0.100 inches will work. You just have to shoot some three shot groups in a ladder to find the sweet spots.

 

[me124704]

Hi Neal-

In my Savage, I've had good success with 47.0 grains of R22 shooting 140 Berger VLDs. I haven't had any heat issues with that load and accuracy has been great.

Matt

**Standard Disclaimer - work up to stated load with caution**

 

[243Mendoza]

49.5gr of H4350 is a common target load for 140gr bullets giving ~2950 fps in 30" 8.5 twist barrels for 1000yd NRA competitions

 

[NealWright]

Picked up a # of H4831SC this evening. Hopefully can get some loads made up for this weekend.

Any suggestions on whether I need to switch to Magnum primers? So far I've been using Fed Std Match primers.

Thanks, Neal

 

[archerross]

No need for magnum primers. My 6.5-284 has a slight preference of CCI BR2 primers over Fed210M.

 

[bozo699]

No need for magnum primers. My 6.5-284 has a slight preference of CCI

Mine prefer the br2's also, however my 6*284 prefers the 215m primers, there is no written law that says magnum primers are taboo, if it isn't shooting to your expectations I would by all means try the magnums
Wayne.

P.S If you are already towards to top end for a powder charge I would back off some and work back up.

 

[1shot]

archerross, and Tony make very valid points. My 6.5x284 prefers N-165 over H-1000 but not by much. the reason for the N-165 is less vertical and the burn temp of the powder is lower than all the powders listed so far on this thread. Examples:
H-4831sc=3870 btu's
H-4350=3990
RL-22=3990 and is double based
H-1000=3630
N-165=3500

In my way of thinking, less starting temp. means longer throat life, hence longer bbl. life.
I hope this helps,
Lloyd

 

[bozo699]

Neal,
Lets start over, I have the same rifle,it's a big cartridge, there fore there's going to be excess barrel heat any time you fire off fifteen rounds, it's going to be much hotter then the guy shooting the dasher beside you. Your not going to be able to compare it with a 6br or a dasher as your shooting a much larger bullet and powder charge which = a much warmer barrel. I am able to shoot 4-7 sighters in my 4 minute sighter period and 10 as fast as I can shoot them on my record target with H-4831 and a 139 Lapua Scenar bullet and still grab the barrel without burning myself,it's hot!! but I can still touch it, can you still touch or hold yours? Now I have shot 7WSM and .300 WM in the same matches, add a bunch more powder and bullet weight and the barrel is to hot to hold for long, that is why the average hunter is using grandpa's old hunting rifle and will hand it down to his son as well with all the original equipment on it, as it will never be used enough to wear it out, on the other hand the average BR shooter might go through 1-3 barrels per year, I myself can get two seasons out of one barrel, I just don't get to shoot more than a dozen matches per year. Wearing out a barrel is much more rewarding than collecting stamps So seriously how hot is your barrel really getting?
Wayne.

 

[NealWright]

Nah, I'm trying to compare it to smaller caliber's ... I can shoot my .223 nearly indefinite without getting warm.

How hot ... if I owned an IR, it actually wouldn't be a bad thing to measure the temp. I was surprised this year, not to see an improvement in barrel heat going to 44g H4350.

How hot ... strangely, I'm having to shoot 7-8 sighters just to get it to group. Those are probably within 5min, and the barrel is getting warm. About another 10 shots (~10min) after that it's too hot to touch, and I can't see through the scope anymore. About 2hrs after shooting, my barrel is still "warm".

Without a temp gun ... I'd call that smokin'! Another guy in the group shoots a 6mm-284 (custom barrel), with MagPro and see nothing like this.

Thanks, Neal

 

[Rock Knocker]

That does seem pretty odd to see those kind of temps. Im shooting a 260AI wih 47.4gr R19 with 140g noslers at 3000fps with no problems. This last weekend I had 5 sighters and due to technical diffiflties had to run around for 10 minutes then my last 15 shots had to be done in under 8 minutes, i grabed my barrel after that and had no real issues. My usual Fclass shooting is 22 shots in 20 minutes, I usually dont strech it out past 15 minutes though.
The barrel gets pretty warm but never uncomfortable to hold.

Would a moly or HBN coated bullet help?

 

[bozo699]

Nah, I'm trying to compare it to smaller caliber's ... I can shoot my .223 nearly indefinite without getting warm.

How hot ... if I owned an IR, it actually wouldn't be a bad thing to measure the temp. I was surprised this year, not to see an improvement in barrel heat going to 44g H4350.

How hot ... strangely, I'm having to shoot 7-8 sighters just to get it to group. Those are probably within 5min, and the barrel is getting warm. About another 10 shots (~10min) after that it's too hot to touch, and I can't see through the scope anymore. About 2hrs after shooting, my barrel is still "warm".

Without a temp gun ... I'd call that smokin'! Another guy in the group shoots a 6mm-284 (custom barrel), with MagPro and see nothing like this.

Thanks, Neal

Neal,
Have you had your barrel slugged so you can measure the diameter of the bore? Mine gets nothing like that, it wouldn't cost much to have your smith slug it then you would know. I am shooting the same kind of gun with much stouter loads. was it originally a 6.5*284 or was it re=chambered from something else?
Wayne.