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6-284 ready for delivery

Cummins cowboy, I went back and read through my posts where I was talking about the run out I was getting and I didn't explain it very well. All of the cases that I was testing were sized the same way with the Redding bushing FL die and then checked for concentricity. I then took the straightest cases and seated bullets using the Wilson seating die and a plain Redding seating die and compared the loaded rounds that came out of the two different seating dies. The Redding was making straighter rounds than the Wilson was using cases that started out straight, on the outside anyway. KandM turning tools should be here Monday and I'm going to attempt to clean the necks up, removing as little as possible.

When I first started looking for dies and equipment for this project my first intuition was to stick with what I knew worked and get Forster dies but the only option was to get a bushing/bump die and I read that a standard FL sizing die was needed to get the brass completely necked down to the shoulder the first time. My standard FL die would not size the entire neck. The Forster bushing/bump die came in yesterday and lo and behold it sizes the entire neck all the way to the shoulder. Looking back on everything, I think that this bushing/bump die would have served me very well with intermediate bushings to do the case "forming" for the 6-284 and could have saved time, money, and frustration. As far as the seating die goes, I'm still up in the air. I have to believe that Wilson makes a quality product as there are just too many people out there giving rave reviews of them. I have been spoiled and require a micrometer seating die of some type ever since I bought my first one. Redding offers one straight from the factory but I've never used one, I guess because of the price difference between it and the Forster, I chose the Forster and have had nothing but excellent results from the Forster Ultra seater. Forster does not have the reamer to custom make a seater in 6-284 but if you can supply the reamer they will make you one. You can purchase an extra sleeve from them for $25 or purchase (use one you already have) a 243 Ultra seater and have it reamed to match your cartridge. This is what I am doing and we'll see how it works.
Jason
 
bozo699 said:
Bob,
Nice rifle, what scope and action are you using?
Wayne.

The scope is a current production Leatherwood/Uni-Dial 7-30 X56, I talked with Iron sights and Corbett Leatherwood before trying these optics out. Well so far they are good glass and hold zeros at preset ranges, as for the action it is a German GEW M98 mauser that I trued and fit an E.R. Shaw 1.250" x 26" barrel on.


Groups are quite effictive for crows 8)
 

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Bobthenailer said:
I built a 6-284 and after reading Ironworker's comments on RL22 & RL17 thats all I feed mine. 1-12 twist so I stick with the 66grainers.
Glad my suggested powders are working for you. What kind of Velocity is your rifle producing with those 66gr bullets ?
 
I use RL17 @ 54grns to get 3900fps, this load is used for varmint hunting since shots are fewer. RL22 @ 55grns produce 3400fps and this is my bench load, both loads will print sub 1/4" accuracy with my best to date of 0.139", 5 shot group @ 100 yards. Round count is around 300 so far and with Speedy G's bore prep method only time will tell how many rounds before the throat goes bad, I do have a 22-284 barrel ready to replace this one when the time comes. ;D
 
Ironworker said:
What is "Speedy G's bore prep ?
Speedy Gonzalez is a Texas gunsmith and world renowned bench rest shooter, he has his own method as does many on how to break in a barrel.
Wayne.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
S.G. & Y. BARREL BREAK-IN & CLEANING



Many of our customers upon taking delivery of their new gun or barrel are in a quandary as how to go about breaking-in that new barrel for maximum life and accuracy. With so much written in magazines these days stating use this, don’t use that, brush, don’t brush...what’s a person to do??

At S.G. &Y. Precision, we have a unique opportunity to inspect many barrels on a daily basis with our video borescope. Consequently, we see the results of a variety of break-in as well as cleaning procedures, and most of them leave the rifle owners with their mouth agape when they see the fruits of their misinformed labor on our bore scopes color monitor. We have seen practically new barrels ruined with less than a hundred rounds shot through them by some of the crazy and sometimes humorous break-in methods employed. Anyway here goes for what it’s worth.



A. Bore guides:

If you don’t have one, get one! Without a good bore guide you are just wasting your time trying to break-in a barrel or cleaning it for that matter. More barrels are destroyed or severely damaged and life shortened by cleaning without a proper bore guide than by shooting. There are many types and brands of bore guides available on the market and range in price from $5.00 to $50.00. The only one we recommend is the Lucas two-piece bore guide. They are the best insurance you can buy for that new barrel. All other bore guides in my opinion are only good for one thing, keeping the solvents out of the trigger and action.



B. Solvents:

There are three solvents we recommend they are as follows:



1) SWEETS 7.62

Sweets is used in our in our cleaning procedures as a bore lubricant prior to pushing the brush through the barrel. Sweets is composed of mostly large soap molecules similar to household dishwashing detergents. Because of the lubricity provided by the soap in the sweets it allows the brush to easily slide through the bore on its first pass. Not to mention removing all of the loose powder and carbon residue left in the barrel prior to cleaning.



Sweets can also be used in extreme cases of copper fouling. The procedure in this worst case scenario is as follows.

A) Brush the barrel with Sweets (Kiss brush good-bye).

B) Let bore soak 5 to 10 minutes (No Longer on Chrome Molly Barrels. Sweets and CM don’t get along very well together for very long).

C) Now soak a patch with HYDROGEN PEROXCIDE and very, very slowly push it through the bore. A chemical reaction will take place between the Ammonia in the Sweets and the Hydrogen Peroxide causing all copper to go into suspension as the reaction takes place. The muzzle of your rifle will look as if it has rabies as the patch slowly nears the crown and you see all of the foaming reaction that is taking place. The blue green colors you see as the patch exits the barrel will amaze you.

D) Inspect the bore after you patch it out with Butches, by placing a Q-Tip just inside the crown. This will light up the bore and allow you to check for any remaining copper. If there are still traces of copper a second application will usually finish the job.

E) At this point you should clean the barrel a described below. If the barrels is chrome molly, we recommend that it be put up using SPEEDY’S FORMULA also described below. The black powder solvent portion of the formula will protect the bore from any rusting or pitting as it does black powder flintlocks or cap & ball long rifles.





2) BUTCHES BORE SHINE

Through out the years we have tried every type of solvent there is known to man and then some you don’t even want to hear about. But none have ever done as good a job as Butches Bore Shine. Used on a regular basis Butches will keep even the largest overbore barrel as clean as the day it was chambered.



3) SPEEDY’S FORMULA

The Speedy Formula is used for the protection of the bore when putting a firearm up for the season or prolonged storage. For those of you poor souls that do not have Butches Bore Shine available to them this solvent is a very good second choice. This was the best we had found up to the advent of Butches.



SPEEDY’S FORMULA is made up as follows:

Mix 2/3 rd.s. Hoppes No. 9 Plus Black Powder Solvent with 1/3rd. Regular Hoppes No. 9 Nitro Solvent. Let this mixture set overnight and it will form a sort of gel that adheres very well to the brush and cuts powder fouling to a minimum.





C. Procedure for “Break-in”:

Although we at S.G. & Y. Precision Rifles feel an extensive break-in procedure is necessary for the custom barreled rifle we build, since that all have a lapped finish in them. The procedure probably has some merit when applied to a factory barreled rifle that has an as machined finish from the factory and no lapped bore surface at all.

Custom barrels are lapped to impart a finish to the bore that will produce as little copper fouling as possible through out the length of the barrel.

Before firing that first shot, clean the barrel as if it had been shot by following these simple steps.



Step 1)

Before firing that first round through the barrel. Clean the barrel as if it had been shot. Then follow these simple steps.



Insert Lucas bore guide into receiver and chamber. If you don’t have one, stop here and get one! If not, just shoot your gun and forget trying to take any care of your barrel at all. If you do have one, proceed, and give yourself one “At-A-Boy” for being astute enough to have purchased the proper tools for the job.



NOTE: One “Aw-” wipes out all “At-A-Boys”.



Step 2)

Run one wet patch of Sweets through the bore and let soak for approximately 30 seconds. Do not patch this out. Remember this is going to serve as our lubricant for the brush as we push it down the bore for the first time. Try this dry and you will see why we apply the Sweets. The sound coming from your barrel as you run a dry brush through it resembles that on stepping on a cat’s tail while wearing your wife’s high heel shoes. Not a pretty picture (unless you’ve shaved your legs recently).



Step 3)

Next, run the brush through the lubricated barrel only enough to expose the entire brush as it exits the muzzle. Yes, I know that you still have 12 more inches of cleaning rod you could push out the end of your barrel but we want to protect that new crown. Also, if that rod hangs out that far, you will eventually start wearing down the rifling at the crown from about 4 to 7 o’clock. This is very bad “JU-JU” for accuracy. Plus we get to make an extra $40 when you need to re-crown the puppy. OK, back to our Step 3. Once the brush is exposed, saturate it well with our Butches Bore Shine or Speedy’s Formula and SLOWLY run the brush through the bore 10 complete back and forth passes while keeping the rod as straight as possible. This is where the Lucas bore guide really pays for itself! Remember, the key word is slowly. We are not trying to break any land speed records today. Let this sit a minute or two and proceed to the next step.



Step 4)

After you have let the barrel soak for a few moments, saturate a patch with the Butches Bore Shine or Speedy’s Formula and pass it through the bore. Follow this with 2 dry patches and then with a chamber mop or patch wrapped around a brush on a short cleaning rod, dry the chamber with Brake Kleen or lighter fluid.



NOTE: We wrote “DRY THE CHAMBER” not the bore of the barrel.



Next, gently wipe the crown off with a soft cloth and lube your bolt (let’s not gall the lugs just yet). Now, you’re ready to shoot your first shot.



Then follow the schedule below to complete your barrel break-in.



1. Clean barrel / lube bolt / 1 shot.



2. Clean barrel / lube bolt / 5 shots.



3. Clean barrel / lube bolt / 10 shots.



4. Clean barrel / lube bolt / 10 to 15 shots and clean again.





D) Additional Cleaning Tips:



1. Each time you clean your rifle, you may wish follow the last dry patch through the bore with a patch soaked with LOCK-EEZ if the bore felt a bit too dry as you passed that last patch through it prior to drying the chamber. This is a graphite powder suspended in a quick evaporating carrier that coats the bore slightly before passing that first round through a completely dry bore. LOCK-EZZ is available at S.G. & Y. Precision Products and most NAPA stores around the country.



2. We are always asked about powder fouling and how to remove it. The only product that we have seen that really does a good job on powder fouling, especially on the carbon ring that forms just ahead of where the neck ends in the chamber, is IOSSO Bore Paste. This is used with an IOSSO BLUE NYLON bristle brush and worked slowly in the neck and throat areas, then slowly down the entire bore. Follow this up with a few wet patches of Butches Bore Shine. Then patch out the bore as if you had brushed as usual, and you’re again ready to shoot.



E. Follow the outline above and make it your regular cleaning program and I promise that your barrels will deliver their greatest potential accuracy and extend their life without a lot of grief and hours of wondering if they are clean.





Good Shooting,



Speedy Gonzalez



S.G. & Y. PRECISION RIFLES, LLC

602 DOUGLAS DR.

ROANOKE, TEXAS 76262

www.sgyrifles.com

Gun Shop: 817-430-0597

Retail Store: 817-430-0206 ask for JD Sims ( Bore Guides ect.)

Email:

speedygonzalez@sgyrifles.com
 
Bozo699, thanks for the cut / paste. I tried the Lock-eez method and really like the accuracy from a cold bore shot, no more need to foul the barrel before a shoot.
 
Bobthenailer said:
Bozo699, thanks for the cut / paste. I tried the Lock-eez method and really like the accuracy from a cold bore shot, no more need to foul the barrel before a shoot.
Bob,
Your welcome, I read that article several years back on BR central, then copied and saved it, it has come in handy severl times.
I bought some Lock-eez a while back to give it a try,..then never did? I think now that I read your post, and need to clean a couple of rifles anyway I think I will find it and try it, thanks.
Wayne.
 
Nothing good to report yet. I have some A-maxes loaded up to try. They are a little skinnier than the 107 SMK so I wanted to see if it would make a difference.
 
The 105 Amax shot decent and at very high velocity if my chrony is anywhere close to being correct. Did not have any blow up. I decided to try a different scope finally, and the results are not conclusive yet. I'm not sure if the loads were better or if it was the scope. One thing I do know now is that carbon fouling is very important in this caliber (or at least in this rifle). The load I had been using initially showed ES in the single digits but the more I shot it, velocity kept climbing and so did the ES as well as pressure signs where there were none before. I have a theory that 4x fired brass had something to do with the sticky bolt lift, as virgin and once fired did not cause sticky bolt. A very patient man told me to try some Witch's Brew and scrub my barrel, so I did and quickly found out that my barrel was not as clean as I thought it was. This "Brew" is some amazing stuff and made the bore noticeably smoother with the cleaning rod as well as bringing the ES down and group size too. I may be on to something, finally but need to confirm my findings. After shooting some decent groups with an Amax load I was trying I loaded up 105VLD, 107SMK, and 105 Amax all with the same charge and shot them at 100yd and the groups were all smallest this gun has ever shot. I need to confirm it but I at least have some hope again. I was ready to give up.
Jason
 
LRPV said:
[*]msg35990826 date=1316915081]
The 105 Amax shot decent and at very high velocity if my chrony is anywhere close to being correct. Did not have any blow up. I decided to try a different scope finally, and the results are not conclusive yet. I'm not sure if the loads were better or if it was the scope. One thing I do know now is that carbon fouling is very important in this caliber (or at least in this rifle). The load I had been using initially showed ES in the single digits but the more I shot it, velocity kept climbing and so did the ES as well as pressure signs where there were none before.
[*]
[/list] I have a theory that 4x fired brass had something to do with the sticky bolt lift, as virgin and once fired did not cause sticky bolt. A very patient man told me to try some Witch's Brew and scrub my barrel, so I did and quickly found out that my barrel was not as clean as I thought it was. This "Brew" is some amazing stuff and made the bore noticeably smoother with the cleaning rod as well as bringing the ES down and group size too. I may be on to something, finally but need to confirm my findings. After shooting some decent groups with an Amax load I was trying I loaded up 105VLD, 107SMK, and 105 Amax all with the same charge and shot them at 100yd and the groups were all smallest this gun has ever shot. I need to confirm it but I at least have some hope again. I was ready to give up.
Jason
Jason,
I have always had to watch for signs of carbon fouling in my 6*284, I usually found it after each match.
My rifle also experienced sticky bolt lift at the top of the lift, started getting real bad after the 3rd-4th firing I used scotch brite in a cordless drill to polish the back of the chamber, where the web of the case fits. it greatly reduce it, and with a new set of brass after 4 firings I haven't noticed bolt lift yet. That was probably the single worse thing I hated about the rifle was the clickers I got at the top of the bolt lift, upsets the whole setup, would have to readjust everything after each shot >:( >:( keep us informed Jason inquiring minds are interested ;)
Wayne.
 
Got some news for you all shooting the 6x284 about sticky bolt lift at top. I bet with Norma brass it wasn't as bad as with Lapua until the Norma brass became work hardened ! The problem is ITS THE NATURE OF THE 6X284 CARTRIDGE ! Its that rebated rim ! I hated that aspect of my rifle,then I tried Norma brass and the problem vanished ,until the 3rd or 4th firing . How did I find this out ? The gun smith that is going to install my new bbl on my rifle. LRPV I'm getting same length and contour bbl you have accept mine will be a BRUX . However I wonder if any guys shooting the 6.5x284 have this same frustration ? ............ I think the best carbon and Copper removal stuff out there is RG1 for carbon and RG 12 for copper.
 
Wayne,

Did you try annealing the brass and if so, did that cure the sticky bolt? I have the first box all 4x fired and started on a new box. I was going to anneal them, but if it doesn't help I probably won't. I necked the new brass down with a Forster Bushing bump die this time. Started with a 285 and went down to 270 in .005 increments, then through the Redding FL die which makes a .269 neck, expanded with a KandM mandrel (273 neck), and then finished off with the Redding S die with a 272. I know it's a lot of steps, but results are good or at least a lot better than the first ones I did. When sizing fired brass with the Forster B/B die, the shoulder of the case gets mushroomed a little and won't fit in the Wilson seater, so I have to run it through the Redding S die anyway. I'll hopefully have some good news tomorrow.
Jason
 
Sticky bolt lift is the nature of the 6x284 cartridge. LRPV read my post I just posted before your last one. I'm learning that the 6x284 is just plain tough on brass. Annealing doesn't do jack s---- regarding the sticky bolt lift. I bet guys shooting the 6-06 don't have this head banging frustration.
 
Ironworker

I was using KG-1 in this barrel. I start with a couple patches and then a bronze brush with about 6 strokes. Patch that out and then soak the barrel again with KG-1 and let it sit. Sometimes after this, patches would come out clean, sometimes I would have to soak it again and then the patches would come out clean. I found out that clean patches doesn't mean you have clean barrel. I also used JB bore paste about every 2-3 cleanings.

I didn't have sticky bolt lift problems until the 4th firing that I remember, other than when I had too much powder in the case. ;) I am happy with the barrel contour and length. It's heavy, but that's fine with me. If I had it to do over I think I would go with a light varmint since it has a longer shank for setting the barrel back or even re-chambering.
 
I recommend using Nylon brushes ? I don't like using any brushes ,I find that soaking with both KG1 and KG12 maybe two or three applications does wonders. I think a clean patch ( No black or copper blue) means you have a realistically clean bbl. After patch comes out clean I get the bbl in the light and closely examine the rifling lands at the muzzle. If I can see copper,( Which is easy to spot) I use KG 12 it eradicates that copper like nothing else. JB bore paste is really lapping compound,there is risk of bbl life using that IMHO . I've found if I manage the copper build up is good enough,and I've gotten under 1/4 MOA with mine with screaming hot loads. What brand brass ? My Hart bbl was varmint contour it had enough shank to cut off a couple inches and re-chamber. Problem was first 5" inches of rifling were gone the rest of the bbl was burnt up.Cut and dry the 6x284 is a bbl burner........... We can't have our cake and eat it too .........
 
Rifle shot .5" groups at 100yd. 3.5" at 300yd. 7.5" at 600yd with 3.5" of vertical spread. Still getting a lot of ES most of the time. CCI 200 seem to give the least ES but that is still 15 fps at best now. WLR gave slightly better groups but the CCI seemed to be more consistent. Settled back on 58 grains of Magnum with the 107 SMK. According to Chrony this is now giving me an average of 3340fps. I get different readings throughout the day as the sun moves. Running my numbers through a ballistic calculator my drops I got at 300 and 600 seem to coincide with this velocity though. This amount of accuracy is not what I expected and I am not happy with it. Whatever the limiting factor here, I hope I can finally figure it out someday. So far the things that I fell has helped are the Magnum powder, Witch's Brew, Concentrictiy gauge (for "clocking" the crooked rounds), Forster bushing bump die for the initial neck down. The limiting factor may end up being the trigger operator, but until all of my guns start shooting like this one, I'll keep trying to make it better.
Jason
 
7.5" at 600 yds is a dead coyote. I was told at a match that 20degrees change in weather can mean a MOA adjustment on scope. Was there any wind ,its amazing how slightest weather change affects trajectory and performance.
 

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