585HE and Powder Questions

[hubel458]

Ed Hubel here- Posting about cartridge and question about powders.
I'm the guy who helped spread the word about the 12ga From Hell,
And a lot of other wild ass big bores and guns. One we developed
was my 585 Hubel Express, with good supply of cases, barrels of
cases, barrels, and dies, along with lots of load testing data.

This site years ago was the first to right up info about the NitroChemie
powders being made for Alliant Powder and we adopted the Alliant RE17
to use in 12ga, 10ga shotgun slug loads, to be able to get higher speeds,
with no more peak pressures than hot factory magnum shot loads.

Now Alliant has the same kind of powders made for them by NC that
has been imported- RE26, RE33, and RE50. These as well as RE17
ignite easier in large diameter cases like 12ga and 50BMG using primers
like large rifle and 209 shotgun primers. Where most all rifle powders need
a BMG size primer to ignite in those cases. The other rifle powder we use
in 12ga shotgun is faster IMR4759 which due to its make up ignites ok.

Now the gap in powder speed between 4759 and RE17 is quite large
and I know that NitroChemie made using the same process, powders
that are between these two speed wise , and available in the EU and UK.
They are RS 40, RS 52, RS 60. The RS 60 is same as RE17.
We would like couple easy igniting powders between 4759 and RE17.
The question-- Now does anyone know whether RS40 and RS52 are
available anywhere in the US or CAN.

And the RE 17 is one of the best powders in our 585HE, like 640gr bullet
at 2800 plus, top load, and less case expansion than slower speed loads
using other similiar speed powders. Here is picture of our 585HE next
to a 505 Gibbs. Any bolt action that handles Gibbs, will feed our case,
and our case is perfect for Ruger #1s, other falling blocks. Ed

 

[CJ6]

Your thread on Wilbur's site is quite interesting.. Thanks.

 

[hubel458]

Thankyou- It is a fun hobby..

For the target shooters here, this is what one of our wild
friends are wildcatting our 585 case to. Ed

 

[hubel458]

The necked down wildcat in the picture called 375 Warlord,
the fellow is getting gun, reamer, and dies made for it.
It is first one he is doing. Ed

 

[hubel458]

Here is picture of a 585HE made on a Stiller bolt action for guy in Canada.

It was made for the poster Spooksar on Africa Hunting and Accuratereloading,

by Corlanes/Rocky Mountain rifles, in Dawson Creek BC Canada, with a

Stiller action, Timney trigger. the stock is a blue/grey laminate. He imported

the barrel, cases, dies, etc.. from us, through Prophet River in Lloydminster AB.

That action similar to Lawton we had and neighbor got, that won the King Of The

2 Mile shoot at Whittington, 3 weeks ago, with the 375 Lethal cartridge,
which is similar to the 375 Warlord above, the neighbor made

from our 585 brass. Made it full length case,.. It is big one on the right.

He made an 18 lb gun with McMillan target stock, a huge scope, tripod..

Nice thing is we don't need BMG action.

Here is picture of a case a Trex owner made using our 585 brass, by putting

a piece of 11/16 tubing ,cut a piece 2/10 of an inch long with a tube cutter chamfered

the cut side a bit and tapped it on the case down to the belt with the brass pipe

and fireformed it in the T Rex chamber.......Made a perfect fitting case.

Cut our brass to 3" to fit shorter trex specs. He was out of brass

and couldn't find more, so he invented his own. And our rim was big

enough so his extractor still worked ok....His original Trex case base is .685"

and our rim and belt on first case run, is .655" diameter, and base ahead

of the belt on unfired cases .631" and the brass sleave pushed up tight to the

belt just takes up that little difference. Ed.

 

[CJ6]

What issues of concern do you have with case separation above the "sleeve" after repeated loadings ? I don't have the experience doing this BUT it has me thinking about what would happen do to the case stretching in that area.

 

[hubel458]

He tested it with 750gr and shotgun powder ok. Extracted ok,

He plans on moderate loads, Says the shoulder formed

great so that should preclude stretching for a bunch of firings,

I said don't do my 585 max as the sleave and base would expand some,

but not blowout, but might be hard to resize,

Some case conversion books show things like this that worke ok.

He got tired of pounding bolt open with few soft, junk,ASQ cases he had left. Ed

 

[hubel458]

Some more on wildcat 375.......

.375 Lethal Precision Arms LLC rifle shooting prototype solid 400gr Berger bullets.

Mitchell built this rifle himself using a McMillan A5 Super Mag stock, Rock Creek barrel,

Nightforce ATACR MOA scope, Phoenix Precision Bipod and a Lethal Precision Arms

muzzle brake. On a Lawton Action.

Remarkably, Mitchell nailed first- and second- shot hits at the 2477-yard target, a full 1.4 miles away.

The prototype 400 grain Berger Bullets solid was superb, (G7 BC of 0.56 at 3000 fps).

Here is a 585 HE in an Enfield, in a Choate Heavy Varmint Stock. These are super strong.

The butts of these can easily be weighted. Couple being done..... Ed

 

[hubel458]

Here is picture of Lawton action bolt with our 585 case in it,

and it will do for any necked down wildcats also. Ed

 

[hubel458]

Some are getting interested in extreme long range 375 case

as we just took Mitch over some more 585 HE cases,

two big boxes of them, so he can rework them and

make more hotrod 375s and set up guys with cases, and

guns like his to compete with. Ed

 

[hubel458]

Extra info.Here is picture of the 12ga FH brass case that Nathan

Vale had Bertrams make. Next to short plastic case.

Here is a picture of our 585BB headstamp. Perfect lettering

for our case as it came from production line,.

I like Hogue stocks, but they aren't made for singleshots.

We use singleshots for our 12ga FH and 585HE.

Here is picture of a NEF we set up for 24ga FH and we adapted

a Hogue 1300 Winchester Hogue to it. Looks a lot better, and

handles recoil easier than factory, Butt hollow, easy to add weight,

 

[Homerange]

Thanks Ed, please keep sharing your stuff.

 

[hubel458]

Who sells the # 6.53-.070 GINEX Boxer Primers in the US.

Or who imports them or could import them.

It is made by Ginex in Bosnia. It is .254" OD compared to

.210" OD of large rifle primers that we mainly use here in US.

It has 68 mgs of priming mixture compared to 38- 40 for large rifle

primers and 120-130 mgs for BMG primers..

I will try to get these, and if I can, the 585 HE cases that we

supply guys to make 375 cases, I will ream pockets to take these

primers, if they want, so as to be able to use the slowest powders

in case full amounts for top velocity. Ed

 

[hubel458]

Some info about target 375 wildcats made from 585 HE , for now Mitch has the

Lethal case proprietory, and the guy in Alaska with the 375 Warlord,

which is about the same case, both made from my 585 HE, holds same powder; has

released it to public domain and he and I will have formed 375 Warlord cases in few weeks....

He has also released the reamer to the public,being made by JGS, so anyone wanting to do

a super ELR rifle, get you a reamer ''now' on the first reamer run at JGS, that way,

you can get a gun done this winter, with reamer in hand.Ed

 

[hubel458]

I,m doing a test gun for the 375 Warlord to get the right powders figured out for guys, same them time, reamer be done soon.Ed

 

[hubel458]

We are doing a 375 HE which will have slightly different specs for case and reamer

than the other 2 375s, Others didn't have time to make huge numbers of cases

needed and wanted theirs proprietary. 375HE is public domain. Reamer info which will

be at makers this week and published on 100 forums, on FB , are all public domain.

Case 30 deg shallower shoulder, little bigger shoulder, different body

length measurements to the neck.
Our crew be making cases in large numbers, got orders for big numbers from

guys building mainly ELR guns. Got a few cases done for testing already.

Test gun ready so we can find best powder, highest speed next few weeks.

 

[hubel458]

How we size and seat 375 HE, one simple die, a 1" die, no monster dies needed
A die we can make with resize reamer from reamer guy, a regular die body,then
pass on to the next guy, those reamers can make a pile of dies.

I do primer work separate, not in the press. SO First with lock ring set, I size cases.

When coming back out of dies with case, we notice the case still well centered,
held straight, when it is down as far as the length of the 375 HE neck,

So we put washer or another lock ring on, same thickness as neck length,
below original lock ring, screw down tight tight in press,

Dies had a 5/8 x 24 thread in top, had powder fill bushing and other stuff same thread,
reamed out from bottom to set bullet height, with ram, case,and bullet up, Start
bullet in case by hand, slide up in die, into holder, raise ram to to top, bullet seated
perfect. Die can have different thread in top as long as big enough to hold seating
bushing, that can be made from many items.

These target bullets held in by strong neck tension, no crimping needed, and notice
bullet point will get no marks or dents, fast, easy, no 380-500 buck special dies.
Bushing centering bullet on ogive is very accurate.

OVER 900 375HE cases behind presses getting done. About 600 on another bench
nearly ready. Small batches in shelves.

All 375 info, prints, specs, pictures, load data is public domain, worldwide.Ed

 

[hubel458]

We are just getting started, tested 300 gr flat base so far, with
200gr ball,will test for speed in increasing weights , up to 400 gr;
Got the 300 gr way over 3800 with longer freebore than what guys
are doing with CEBs, Allows more powder. less pressure problems,
Here is pic of extra old barrel we use checking a dozen freebore fits,
using throater to ream freebore in stages, The bullet being checked in barrel
is 400 gr, and case behind on desk has same and its overall length is 4.05",
and we can get 185gr ball powder under it in the case.

Here are case measurements.

Those 600 cases behind being necked to 375 HE, just need deburring
and 2 passes and they are done.Ed

 

[hubel458]

Got guys asking if there will be 416 HE target round,

we getting specs figured out, reamers figured out,

will test in couple months after 375 testing done.Ed

 

[hubel458]

Here is the neck swage die setup, group using couple like this now.

A threaded die we put sleeve in to fit case, its top is threaded 7/8 x 14.

Bullet seating stems with these dies is same thread and we had a bunch.

They have 30 degree taper in them with hole, we redrill/reamed hole sizes

.020" increments, for last 5 stages, First sets are just 7/8 x 14 die parts with

30 degree chamfer we put on 6 of them. Matches case shoulder taper.

We have 6 more of big threaded dies if some want to get one to sleeve and

make neck swage, CH4 got those top stems to rework.

Most wildcatters got die parts to rework,Ed