50 BMG uppers now considered firearms

[Ggmac]

according to the article in firearm news aka Shotgun news , the 50 ( and other cal ) BMG uppers that you install on ar-15 lowers are now considered firearms . So you will have a firearm with 2 serial numbers , a firearm with 2 receivers . Atfe is really starting to restrict certain add on accessories . What's next , barrels ?

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Is this stemming from the ban on 50bmg in certain communist states? People found a way around it now theyre closing that loophole?

 

[Ggmac]

Is this stemming from the ban on 50bmg in certain communist states? People found a way around it now theyre closing that loophole?

I don't know . It's in the issue I just received . It says and copied letters sent to Safety Harbour and a few others . I'm wondering about all the pistol Ar -15 designs . Soon after the new year I'm sure it'll be addressed .
I understand the bump stock owners can't grandfather them , they need to be destroyed . That's just what I heard , don't know if that's fact .

 

[IdahoSharpshooter]

look up www.gatcrank.com for the next ban...

 

[Rube Shooter]

look up www.gatcrank.com for the next ban...

I was thinking about these yesterday, it's just a matter of time before this item lands on the ban list.

 

[Highpower-FClass]

From doing a google search, if this is the same case being mentioned in shotgun news, it looks like this originates from letters sent out to manufacturers of bolt-action operated uppers in July 2018:

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog...ying-50-cal-bolt-action-ar-uppers-as-firearm/

Reading the letter it looks like the reason for these particular uppers being targeted is that they are bolt action operated as opposed to gas operated.

From the letter (emphasis added):
"ATF has determined that the receiver of a bolt-action rifle is the part of the firearm to which the barrel attaches..."

and further:
"The bolt-action upper assembly differs drastically from standard AR-type upper assembly, including the necessity of manual operation."

So it seems the reason for them being singled out is not that they are 50 BMG but rather that they are bolt action uppers as opposed to gas operated.

 

[scubohuntr]

So logically, if you order a .50 assembled, the lower is not a firearm. There are rules about configuring a firearm originally bought as a rifle into a pistol, but nothing about a rifle originally bought as a bolt action into a semi-auto. So you should be able to mail that sucker anywhere.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

So logically, if you order a .50 assembled, the lower is not a firearm. There are rules about configuring a firearm originally bought as a rifle into a pistol, but nothing about a rifle originally bought as a bolt action into a semi-auto. So you should be able to mail that sucker anywhere.

I bet its going to have 2 serial numbers

 

[284winner]

according to the article in firearm news aka Shotgun news , the 50 ( and other cal ) BMG uppers that you install on ar-15 lowers are now considered firearms . So you will have a firearm with 2 serial numbers , a firearm with 2 receivers . Atfe is really starting to restrict certain add on accessories . What's next , barrels ?

Yep!!!

 

[scubohuntr]

I bet its going to have 2 serial numbers

I'm sure it will. Now you drop down the rabbit hole. I am not, and have never been, a lawyer, but the problem seems to me to be not so much about the rifle. A few people will buy one, and by the time they get through the first thousand dollars worth of ammo and into the second magazine, it will occur to them that it is a really bad idea. The problem is precedents. I don't know what the eventual effects of setting a bunch of precedents will be, but it can't be good.

Joe Shooter goes into his local Tactical Mart O Rama and buys a rifle. He has to fill out two 4473 forms. The lower passes NICS with no problem, the upper goes into the black hole of BATFE Bureaucracy and gets incorrectly rejected. So now he can buy part of the rifle, but has to appeal the other part.

Joe's brother Bob buys a similar rifle at the same place, and has no problems with either of the forms. He goes out and shoots it for a while and decides it is a really stupid firearm and he doesn't want to mess with it any more. He takes the upper off and puts a 6.5 Grendel upper on instead, and happily shoots it for years. Some time in the future he trades the entire (now 6.5 Grendel and only one firearm) rifle at a gun show. Anybody want to bet that somewhere in the bowels of the BATFE database, that lower is linked with the .50 upper gathering dust in the back of Bob's gun safe?

The third Shooter brother, Cletus, lives in a semi-communist state and is limited to purchasing one firearm per month. Obviously, if Cletus is interested in something like a .50 BMG upper, he has a bunch of AR-15 lowers already, but maybe not. He shot Bob's rifle before he put the Grendel upper on it (Joe is still waiting on his appeal), and wants one. He can only buy half of it this month. He has to wait a month to buy the other half.

And another one. The world is hit by an alien stupid ray, and Schumer/Pelosi win the presidential election. Now, we all know that the eventual goal is to outlaw all firearms, knives, pointed sticks, and rocks, but first up is a ban on Evil Assault Weapons. Because the Blunder Twins have no imagination, the ban will be modeled on the California ExtraConstitutional Excursion. Which one of the two firearms represented by the single rifle is going to be designated as the E.A.W.? There is only one Dangerous Pistol Grip, one Threatening Large Capacity Magazine, one Concealable Collapsible Stock, and one Sniper Flash Suppressor. Most of these attach to the lower, so the administration is okay with .50 BMG uppers, right? Unlikely.

Now that they have all these marvelous precedents in place, what's next? Obviously, serialize all AR uppers and treat them as firearms. Otherwise you are discriminating based on caliber, and that must somehow be RacistSexistHomophobicInsensitiveBad. Because everyone knows high capacity magazines cause school shootings, serialize all of those and treat them as firearms too. Some folks convert semi autos to full auto, right? Not if BATFE controls trigger groups as firearms. That would make it more illegal than it already is, so nobody would do it any more. There is no legal issue with any of these, because it has now been established that a single firearm can have multiple serial numbers, every one of which is legally a firearm in its own right.

 

[Nick Caprinolo]

look up www.gatcrank.com for the next ban...

I can see the possibility of mounting a pair of ARs with these attached and actuated by an electric motor while mounted on a pedestal with 100 round mags.

 

[snert]

I'm sure it will. Now you drop down the rabbit hole. I am not, and have never been, a lawyer, but the problem seems to me to be not so much about the rifle. A few people will buy one, and by the time they get through the first thousand dollars worth of ammo and into the second magazine, it will occur to them that it is a really bad idea. The problem is precedents. I don't know what the eventual effects of setting a bunch of precedents will be, but it can't be good.

Joe Shooter goes into his local Tactical Mart O Rama and buys a rifle. He has to fill out two 4473 forms. The lower passes NICS with no problem, the upper goes into the black hole of BATFE Bureaucracy and gets incorrectly rejected. So now he can buy part of the rifle, but has to appeal the other part.

Joe's brother Bob buys a similar rifle at the same place, and has no problems with either of the forms. He goes out and shoots it for a while and decides it is a really stupid firearm and he doesn't want to mess with it any more. He takes the upper off and puts a 6.5 Grendel upper on instead, and happily shoots it for years. Some time in the future he trades the entire (now 6.5 Grendel and only one firearm) rifle at a gun show. Anybody want to bet that somewhere in the bowels of the BATFE database, that lower is linked with the .50 upper gathering dust in the back of Bob's gun safe?

The third Shooter brother, Cletus, lives in a semi-communist state and is limited to purchasing one firearm per month. Obviously, if Cletus is interested in something like a .50 BMG upper, he has a bunch of AR-15 lowers already, but maybe not. He shot Bob's rifle before he put the Grendel upper on it (Joe is still waiting on his appeal), and wants one. He can only buy half of it this month. He has to wait a month to buy the other half.

And another one. The world is hit by an alien stupid ray, and Schumer/Pelosi win the presidential election. Now, we all know that the eventual goal is to outlaw all firearms, knives, pointed sticks, and rocks, but first up is a ban on Evil Assault Weapons. Because the Blunder Twins have no imagination, the ban will be modeled on the California ExtraConstitutional Excursion. Which one of the two firearms represented by the single rifle is going to be designated as the E.A.W.? There is only one Dangerous Pistol Grip, one Threatening Large Capacity Magazine, one Concealable Collapsible Stock, and one Sniper Flash Suppressor. Most of these attach to the lower, so the administration is okay with .50 BMG uppers, right? Unlikely.

Now that they have all these marvelous precedents in place, what's next? Obviously, serialize all AR uppers and treat them as firearms. Otherwise you are discriminating based on caliber, and that must somehow be RacistSexistHomophobicInsensitiveBad. Because everyone knows high capacity magazines cause school shootings, serialize all of those and treat them as firearms too. Some folks convert semi autos to full auto, right? Not if BATFE controls trigger groups as firearms. That would make it more illegal than it already is, so nobody would do it any more. There is no legal issue with any of these, because it has now been established that a single firearm can have multiple serial numbers, every one of which is legally a firearm in its own right.

And Joe is the only one that doesn't end up prosecuted, cause his forms are STILL at the BATF, waiting....besides he died of old age and some monkey on meth stole his crap and his SS# so Joe is really Pablo and is is livin high in LA.

 

[dcali]

I doubt anything has caused more confusion at ATF than the AR15. My experience with ATF (which is limited) is that they’re good people trying to follow the law. Trouble is that the laws are nonsensical. It must be very frustrating to work there.

If I understand this one, it’s just kind of insane- like our antiquated and silly firearms laws. To me, it always made sense to make the upper the serial numbered part (although I’m glad that’s not the case). The lower is a glorified trigger hanger, when you think about it.