464 30-30 160gr ftx little different

[w0wly]

I am new here and this is my first post. I bought reloading gear with intentions of starting this process in 2008. I never unpacked any of it from the boxes. Had some time recently to start in, and was lucky to find components close by.
At any rate. I’ve hunted whitetail in NY with 30-30 for a few years. Coming from a target/bolt background I wasn’t crazy about my groups with factory cartridges. But they were and are good enough to get things done. Never lost any game with them. Only shoot once.
Since I have the press set up now I’m trying to work up my first load ever for my mossberg 464. I’ve read a TON of info on loading the 160ftx over h-lvr for the Marlins and Henry’s seem to love the factory load available from hdy but my gun not so much.
I started with three shots loaded with 160gr ftx on h-lvr in once fired hdy brass from factory loads cci 34 primers. Starting at 31gr and going to 35 gr in one grain increases. Targets attached 33 and 34 seem to be the sweet spot. I work allot and had my dad shoot the targets for me with the loads. I’m not sure about the flyer on the 34 gr target but if it’s shooters error then that would be the best grouping. I’m trying to use this combo to make a hunting round for 200 or less yards. I think it will end up around 33.7 gr. And 2150 FPS which would do nice for where I hunt.
Reason I’m posting this is when I’ve looked around I haven’t found much data on the 464 and loading for it. It seems to like a different pill from the Marlins and Henry’s. So hopefully this may help give a starting point for someone. Let me know if you have any suggestions, thoughts, etc as I could totally be missing the boat as is my First load work up.
thanks
Ryan

 

[Riesel]

I think you are right

 

[w0wly]

I think you are

First time for everything lol!

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Get us some pics of the primers on the fired brass. Can you load a fired round in the chamber fairly easily?

 

[ebb]

Try the charge weight in 3/10 grain charges. You may have missed the charge weight that has them all touching.

 

[w0wly]

Get us some pics of the primers on the fired brass. Can you load a fired round in the chamber fairly easily?

I will get them back this weekend and will post them. What am I looking for?

 

[w0wly]

Try the charge weight in 3/10 grain charges. You may have missed the charge weight that has them all touching.

Alright, I was thinking of starting at 33 and working up through 34 in smaller steps. Now I know what size! Thanks for the tip! I’ll get them loaded and see if I can shoot them Saturday.

 

[w0wly]

I also should note that the brass is once fired (now twice) in the same gun. I bought factory rounds and saved the brass for “someday.” Neck sized with Lee die and function well through the action so far. Absolutely no resistance going into battery.

 

[CaptainMal]

For years , since LeverRevolution powder and the 160 FTX came out, I have found one load that works great in all three of my Marlin 30-30's. The 24" bbl one gets 2,400 fps while the 20" ones get just under 2,300 fps. The load....

35.0 grains of LeverRevolution and the 160 FTX.

I actually can make great groups at 300 yards with the 24" Marlin and darn good at 200 yards with the carbines. When I say great I mean MOA (3" at 300 yards) or close. Of course that rifle has had multiple modifications by me to do that. The others are factory guns with little more than some barrel band modifications to stop scraping on the barrels. The still work well and all are used each year for deer kills in Georgia where you can take 10 does and 2 bucks.

During my testing I went up to 36 grs. with no issues. Think I figured that 35.5 grs was what Hornady used in their ammo as I took one apart years ago. 35.0 just seemed to be close and works great in all my 30-30's.

Please - work up in yours and watch for any pressure signs, I have used my ammo in two other Marlin 30-30's testing or scoping rifles for others. No issue at any time.

 

[w0wly]

Here are the cases from the lot that was shot with the targets already posted. I haven’t been able to get the next lot loaded up but I have planned the loads. 33.5 gr. - 34.4 gr. In .3 gr. Increments. The 33gr load is 1/2 inches at 50 yards the 34 gr target it just over a 1/4 inch center to center so I think MOA is definitely possible consistently which would be nice.
I’ll keep you posted

 

[Riesel]

Looks to me like you are on the right track and I'm not seeing signs of ant pressure. If you keep cranking it up you might get a bit more speed but there's a fair chance the accuracy may fade. You're working with a good bullet so go for shot placement. It's obvious you know how to shoot and that's not a target rifle you are working with..

 

[w0wly]

Still had a rifle team in H.S. Believe it or not! Then some folks had to ruin the fun. But I learned a lot. Feel fortunate I had the chance . Before that my dad and gramps taught me everything about hunting and shooting. Gramps learned in ww2. Dad put food on the table, always been part of living. Tools for jobs. At least from here that’s what I see. I was always interested in reloading excited to try it out. Want to start casting too but I’m still young. Talk soon.

 

[w0wly]

Ok,
Had a little time before work. Loaded up the next batch of tests. They are as follows:
33.5 gr.
33.8 gr.
34.1 gr.
34.4 gr.
34.7 gr.
Three of each. The actual loads of the #3 & #4 targets above where: 32.9 gr. And 34.3 gr. I consulted the notes.
so this group should really tell us what is what I think.
i don’t have anytime off until Saturday. I’ll try to sneak out back before then but no promises.
later on,

 

[w0wly]

Also I noticed the target pictures are out of order but they are numbered in order and roughly rounded to the nearest grain.
#1 was 31 gr.
#2 was 32 gr.
#3 was 33 gr.
#4 was 34 gr.
#5 was 35 gr.
note: exact charges for #3 and #4 are above but these numbers are rounded to the nearest grain and were just used to get in the ballpark. That is why I’m stopping short of 35 gr. With this most recent test as it starts to open back up again.

 

[w0wly]

Alright, I hope everyone is well. I had a chance today to sneak out and try these loads. This time I shot a measured 100 yds. It was 32 degrees F 30.25 pressure, 73% humidity.
I shot 5 groups of three. Best load grouped at 1 1/16” so just over MOA which is consistent with what the first groups showed was possible. 33.8 grains was the winner and is consistent with the other data so I’m satisfied.
Should be a fine choice for deer out to 175 yards.
Also as a side note: after I shot group 1 I attempted to adjust the scope to hit farther right, I moved it the wrong way and so group 2 while the best, is farther off to the left. I corrected it as I went on, but it needs more adjustment to the right still.

 

[jackieschmidt]

I think you are right where you need to be.
Anything approaching one minute accuracy out of a lever action with a good hunting bullet is pretty darned good.
especially if it does what it is designed to do, take white tails at reasonable yardages.

 

[w0wly]

It seems reasonable, I don’t have opportunity to shoot much farther than 100 yards anywhere here. One thing that has been interesting is, when I look back at the groups, it appears to be a single shot, then group of two. I assume it’s the first shot when barrel is cold, then the next two group together more readily. The group size is really determined by the difference between those two things. As the charge goes higher the second two group together closer but farther away from the initial shot. ( that’s a guess) Ballistics has always been fascinating.

 

[Uncle Ed]

Look at your primers on your fired rounds and you will see the primers are protruding. This is normal with a 30-30 because the chamber pressure is not high enough to make the case stretch to the rear and contact the bolt face.

At the Hodgons website, the max load is 35.5 grains of LVR and it is a compressed load at 37,500 cup. The max rated pressure for the 30-30 is 38,000 cup or 42,000 psi and even max loads will have the primers protruding at this low pressure range.

Lay a straight edge on your primers and you will see daylight on the base of your cases. And even at max loads, you will never see a case head separation and your cases will die of split necks.

You did not say if your 30-30 has a scope, but if you are shooting iron sights your groups are more than good enough for deer hunting in the woods and open fields.

And when you are standing on your hind legs shooting at a running deer benchrest accuracy is not needed.

 

[w0wly]

I totally agree as far as the bench test accuracy is concerned. I’ve been planning to start reloading for a long time, just now got around to it. That is the reason I bought a 30-30, for reloading and eventually I’d like to try cast bullets. But figured first time out I’d work with a few less variables. I’ve heard tales of long lasting brass from this cartridge and from an economy standpoint I’m looking forward to it. The primers are out just a little on those cases. I just finished sizing, trimming, and cleaning them again. I’ve been only neck sizing but have had no problems with them cycling, or going into battery as it’s the only rifle I have in that caliber. I’m amazed at how much difference there is in accuracy with different charges.

 

[Uncle Ed]

The problem with neck sizing your 30-30 will be extraction if the cases do not spring back from the chamber walls when fired. You may have to wait for the cases to cool off before they will extract.

I would not use neck sized cases for hunting, the 30-30 lever action rifles do not have the primary extraction that a bolt action has. The 30-30 action only pulls straight back and if the case does not spring back from the chamber walls you will have a single shot rifle.

Click on the image below to enlarge, one of my favorite expressions about full length resizing is below.

"The cartridge should fit the chamber like a rat turd in a violin case."