.458 win mag?

[FryeGuy]

I have been looking at big bores recently. found a .458 win mag, in a Win 70 super grade. i looked in sierra manual and hornady book as well. they have their 300 hp loaded down to 45-70 levels. does anyone have or have shot a 458 win mag, and have you shot it loaded down? what is recoil really like? if loaded way down, to deer/bear/whatever hunt with i think it would/may be interesting. what opinions are there on this? i know it is way overkill, but so are a lot of other calibers. what would one of these guns really be worth?

 

[dreever]

I used to have one some years ago and really even with full factory loads it wasn't any worse than shooting a 12 ga. 3 inch magnum in my mind. The big downside is going to be the cost of ammo. Even reloading now days those big slugs are expensive.
Be real careful loading down the .458. With that much case capacity and loading down with a powder such as 3031 you can encounter a situation where the powder isn't of enough volume to be ignited sufficiently by the primer causing a dangerous hang fire or even lodging a bullet halfway down the barrel. Trust me I'm speaking from experience here I did just that. If you put some filler on top of the powder charge before seating the bullet you can help minimize this, but again lets face it the .458 wasn't designed to be down loaded so it's best to use a full charge of powder and recoil be dammed.
Another thing if you like your nose the way it is don't even consider a scope on that thing because sooner or later you are going to find out what's it's like to get kissed by a Sumo wrestler! LOL!
As to what it's worth, well lets face it you don't need a .458 to hunt anything in North America so unless you find someone else who's curious enough to buy one you may have it for awhile.
Then again if it's bragging rights your interested in you definately have one of the bigger dogs on the block.

Danny

 

[FryeGuy]

thanks for the honest answers. i have been looking at getting a marlin guide gun for some time. I have an uncle who has a 45-70 in a falling block of some sort, and the recoil is nothing on it. just figured for a little bit more i could get a whole lot nicer rifle, and load it about the same, maybe a touch more. then have it for africa some day?? or maybe just destroy stuff with it.

 

[KevinL]

FryeGuy I wish you lived closer to me I would love to let you shoot mine I had the erg as a yunger man and desidded to bild one I started with a 1917 enf and went threw 3 smiths befor compleat Morison prasi Brl some work by Glen Pierce in Az then to Harry Lawson for finish stock 5x Carlo and some more changes and blueing Cock on open trigger scope mounts . you know the hole ball of wax almost 5 years in the making and I blew my sholder I have some coyote hunting loads that I have shot coyotes and jack rabits with and it is a lot of fun to shoot. I have 45-70s and Thay are comprabol. My bannelly BE2 12 ga with 3 1/2 inch dead coyote kicks harder than any ammo I have shot out of it yet. I have not shot any 500 grn solids out of it but I dont think much diffrent than the 450s
It is a conversation pice and a lot of fun to play with If you have the intention to go after an big bear in alaska like I did it would be worth the time and money to have but thay are not cheep to get into
Good Luck Kevin

 

[Eddie Harren]

I built one, for a customer, last summer. He had an Alaskan brown bear hunt scheduled in Sept. Remington action, Rem mountain rifle stock, Shilen #4 barrel, came in at 7 lbs. 10 oz without the scope. After test firing it, he decided to have me engrave 'Ol' Hematoma' on the barrel. Not a real fun gun to shoot.

 

[Preacher]

With the correct amount of H-4895 and light weight bullets the 458WM can be a very light recoiling plinker.
H-4895 is the only powder that should be used for downloading the big cases...

 

[TonyR]

I did something like this for a friend's 375 H&H Magnum. As Preacher says, you can find safe loads with lighter bullets and faster powders that make these big boomers a pleasure to shoot. I worked up a Varget load for the 375 H&H in QuickLoad that gave 2600 fps with the Speer 235gr HotCor, pretty much the same as a 30-06 with the big 30 cal bullets. The chrony numbers were within about 20fps of the QuickLoad predicted values. My understanding is that you have to be careful loading down these big cases with anything slower than H4350. I did some reduced loads for the 416 Rem Mag using H4895. Very nice vertical and ES for such big beasts. I noticed that Barnes makes bullets for the 458 from 250 to 600gr so there should be lots of room to find something that works for you in both North merica and Africa. I worked up the loads for the 416 and 375 for my friend because he is going to Africa and wants to make sure he has spent a lot of time handling his guns before he goes. His 375 and 416 are identical except for cartridge so he has been using the 375 for everything including deer hunting then will do some practice with the 416 to get comfortable with the recoil. Seems to have worked because he has become much more comfortable with both guns.

 

[StevenDzupin]

Cast Gas Checked Bullets and 4759 or 4198 Powder can be your best friends !

Lymans Cast Bullet Handbook or RCBSs' Handbook of Cast Bullets
are great sources of information.

12 to 15 Grains of Unique powder works nicely,shirt sleeve comfort!

Regards,

Steve

 

[k20350]

My .458 Makes me smile!!!!!!! My 105lb cousin doesnt think mine is bad off sticks w/ the 350 hornady's. She even has fired the 450gn Full house Barnes load. Work your way up and wear thick clothes to start. Don't shoot off bench until you are very comfortable w/ it. 500 gn Full house solid loads have some stink on them off the bench LOL!!!!!!!! Go w/ the .458 and never look back. It can do everything the 45-70 can do but lots more.

 

[Travelor]

I would get it - then you will never have to worry about rampaging elephants in you neighborhood again. I know that since buying mine I have never had a problem with Water Buffalos, Elephants, or Rhinos in my neightborhood. And not a single Polar or Grizzly bear either. ,I live in Arkansas.)

Seriously, I have a 458 Win Mag and love it. It is a real pussycat when you load 45-70 loads and cast bullets.

Great fun,

George

 

[larryt]

Yeah a 458wm kicks, as the laws of physics still work. I have loaded Hornaday 350 gr,300gr?) soft point round nose with RL7. There is no issue with an under filled case. It replicates 45-70 loads. If you need more data on really big stuff, go visit nitroexpress.com. They only start talking about guns at 9.3mm.

The light bullets are not bad to shoot, I used this as my practice round. The biggest factor I think is the shape of the stock and how it helps with the felt recoil. Put a good pad on it and let it rip.

 

[gpoldblue]

FryeGuy....I have owned and my brother still owns Winchester M70 Super Grade rifles chambered for the .458 Win Mag. We both found them superbly accurate,sub MOA) groups @ 100yds with full power loads,500gr Hornady SP's and Solids,2,050fps). Found RL-7 to be THE powder for them. We have never loaded them down so I can't say what it's like,but I have loaded 300gr & 350gr bullets well past 2500fps to 2700fps. Accuracy was NOT as good as with the 500gr bullets.
I had a 1.5-5x Leupold on mine and my brother used the factory open sights and I NEVER got hit by the scope even shooting benchrest with it.
Shoot your 4 5 8 and enjoy. gpoldblue

 

[458]

You can quantify recoil in the .458 Win. Mag.

30-06 runs about 20 ft. lbs.

45-70 Govt. runs about 40 ft. lbs.

.458 Win. Mag. 500 gr. bullets runs about 65 ft. lbs.

If you get a grip on the rifle and it fits, it's not unpleasant to shoot.,But then I'm a recoil junkie.) I have Ruger No.1's in 45-70 and .458 Win. Mag. It's possible, I suppose, to load up the Win. Mag. like a 45-70. Use a powder that fills the case. 4895 seems to be the preferred stuff.

Full boat loads in the Win. Mag. tend to run compressed, and so Lott designed the .458 Lott -- same specs, but about 1/2' more length in the brass. This allows uncompressed loads. Compression was causing problems in the African heat, hang fires, etc.

I priced some Federal ammo,'Cape Shok' 350 gr. bullets. Retail at Sportsman's Warehouse they ran $119.99 a box of 20. Hornady brass from Grafs ran me about $50 / 50 pcs.

500 gr. bullets run about $1 ea. -- I found some on sale. I also shoot some scaled down loads, Oregon Trails,'LazerCast' lead, .459' 350 gr. They work in both the Win. Mag. and 45-70.

Both these rifls are scoped: Leupold VXIII 1.5 - 6x 32mm on the 45-70, and a Leupold 4x 30mm fixed on the Win. Mag. Plenty of eye relief, with these scopes. But then Leupold designed them that way on purpose.

No elephants in my neighborhood, no cape buffalo, rhino, etc. They're all quakin' in their boots, and hiding.,I'm in Oregon.)