45 Super

[Alaska Bush Man]

45 Super
Glock 21 Gen 4
4.6” KKM Barrel
24 Pound Spring and 22 pound Dual Spring
Both Springs worked great
Wolf Extra Power Mag Springs

250Gr .451” Hardcast Rim Rock TS RNFP
Accurate No 9
CCI 350 Primer
Win 45 ACP Brass
1.200”
12.8 @ 1075 FPS
13,0 @ 1098 FPS
Lee Factory Crimp Die

Great trail Load !

 

[SeabeeKen]

Seen this elsewhere.
Why so slow a powder? you're only burning 60% of it. The rest wasted as a fireball.
My 45 Super (same exact setup) is amazing with N-350 and True Blue

 

[Alaska Bush Man]

Seen this elsewhere.
Why so slow a powder? you're only burning 60% of it. The rest wasted as a fireball.
My 45 Super (same exact setup) is amazing with N-350 and True Blue

AA9 with the CCI 350 I see no evidence of unburned powder in 4.6” or 5.2” KKM in 45 Super.
Love the pressure curve with 250gr. Works very well.
This is probably aided by the excellent CCI 350 Mag primer !

 

[Aaron23]

Seen this elsewhere.
Why so slow a powder? you're only burning 60% of it. The rest wasted as a fireball.
My 45 Super (same exact setup) is amazing with N-350 and True Blue

I personally use aa#7 and regular cci lpp

 

[Alaska Bush Man]

Win 45 ACP Brass in a 250 gr. 45 Super loading.

Yes I use Regular 45 ACP brass by Starline and Winchester all the way up to 1000 FPE loads with very little case expansion. Probably aided by KKM barrel. Don’t suggest +P brass.
Winchester 45 ACP brass is favorite in 45 Super.
I only run a 250gr from 1075fps to 1098 fps in 4.6” KKM with 22 pound dual spring with excellent results.

FYI
Max case expansion is .481” don’t go past that.
At .481 you very close to 460 Rowland levels in 45 Super +P.

 

[Alaska Bush Man]

I personally use aa#7 and regular cci lpp

For a faster powder like AA7 it’s Longshot !
I have had excellent results from Longshot with WLP and WW brass with 250gr Rim Rock
8.0 for 45 ACP +P
8.6 for 45 Super
9.0 for 45 Super +P
4.6” KKM

 

[Aaron23]

For a faster powder like AA7 it’s Longshot !
I have had excellent results from Longshot with WLP and WW brass with 250gr Rim Rock
8.0 for 45 ACP +P
8.6 for 45 Super
9.0 for 45 Super +P
4.6” KKM

AA#7 and longshot are very similar in this respect.

Was suggested to me by Thomas Scriminger (from 460Rowland.com) for upper end loads and just like he said - works very well for that indeed.

Obviously using a good bit more for my Rowland loads than you mentioned above but works fine in those ranges as well.

Not to mention plenty of published data is available from ramshot/western for those higher end loadings...

 

[Alaska Bush Man]

AA#7 and longshot are very similar in this respect.

Was suggested to me by Thomas Scriminger (from 460Rowland.com) for upper end loads and just like he said - works very well for that indeed.

Obviously using a good bit more for my Rowland loads than you mentioned above but works fine in those ranges as well.

Not to mention plenty of published data is available from ramshot/western for those higher end loadings...

Here is my AA9 with CCI 350
4.6” KKM 250gr Rim Rock 1.200”
12.2 at 998 FPS ( 45 ACP+P)
12.8 at 1075 FPS ( 45 Super)
13.0 at 1098 FPS ( 45 Super +P)

Longshot
8.0 @ 1000fps
8.6 @ 1075fps
9.0 @ 1160 fps
WW Brass and WLP

No Pressure signs in WW 45 ACP Brass probably more room to move higher if desired !
Cases and primers excellent !
No evidence of unburned powder probably aided by excellent CCI 350 primers.
No Comp G21 and 22 pound dual spring

3 years ago I started my 45 Super +p testing and reloading with Starline 45 Super Brass and 3 powders Power Pistol / Longshot and AA9.
Always used CCI 350 primers with AA9 but the other the 2 powders CCI 300/Fed 150 and WLP.
In my test Fed 150 and WLP performed the best at upper levels. In the KKM barrel no difference in 45 super brass and WW 45 ACP brass. But in stock OEM Glock barrel the Starline 45 Super brass had the advantage. All 3 powders were excellent good velocity with 250gr. But AA9 with CCI 350 seemed to work the best seemed less pressure but more powder required.

 

[Aaron23]

3 years ago I started my 45 Super +p testing and reloading with Starline 45 Super Brass and 3 powders Power Pistol / Longshot and AA9.
Always used CCI 350 primers with AA9 but the other the 2 powders CCI 300/Fed 150 and WLP.
In my test Fed 150 and WLP performed the best at upper levels. In the KKM barrel no difference in 45 super brass and WW 45 ACP brass. But in stock OEM Glock barrel the Starline 45 Super brass had the advantage. All 3 powders were excellent good velocity with 250gr. But AA9 with CCI 350 seemed to work the best seemed less pressure but more powder required.

I would bet that the 350 primers are why you are getting a good burn. The cci magnum primers do have more brisance (real easy to test by loading one of each type primer in a case with no bullet or powder and popping them off side by side).

I use the Starline 460Rowland brass and cci300 primers for all of my hot loadings. Generally I don’t aim for the very top of the published 460 data. If I stay in the middle range or lower of 460 data I feel comfortable using that brass over and over. The few times I ran the loads up towards the top I kept that brass separated and after a couple of those loadings set that brass aside to be trimmed to fit my regular 45acp chambers. Once trimmed for those chambers it gets used right along with all my other Starline 45acp brass.

I tried one time (and only that one time) to shoot regular 45acp loads (Starline 45acp brass) in my Rowland chambered pistol and yeah it worked ok but even at regular hardball load levels (800 to 850 FPS / 230gr projectile) the cci 300 primers looked bad. Noticeable flattening like things were way too hot when I knew darn well things were not at all anywhere near hot... The primers flattened because the 45acp brass was short for the 460Rowland chamber giving false pressure signs.

The other member that mentioned True Blue powder @SeabeeKen - That is a good powder for hotter loads and there is published data for it. I have at least 5 or 6 lbs of that and will buy more if I get down to less than a couple lbs left. If I am loading warm to hot 45acp stuff for a barrel that does not have a compensator - True Blue is the powder I am grabbing. I bet if you tried a lb you would like it too!

Anything with a comp and I am sticking with the AA#7 every time! Not at all economical but it makes stuff go really fast without insane pressure and because it is so bulky it will provide all the gasses you need to properly ‘work’ a compensator.

I’ve got bullseye, zip, true blue and aa#7 all on hand for 45 type stuff and honestly never even bother with the faster powders (bullseye or zip) any more. Yeah the faster powders are more ‘economical’ if only making plinking fodder but you are limited in what you can do with them velocity wise and they sure as heck ain’t going to make enough gasses to work any sort of comp.

Appreciate you sharing your data and experience sir. Wishing you good shooting!

 

[Alaska Bush Man]

I would bet that the 350 primers are why you are getting a good burn. The cci magnum primers do have more brisance (real easy to test by loading one of each type primer in a case with no bullet or powder and popping them off side by side).

I use the Starline 460Rowland brass and cci300 primers for all of my hot loadings. Generally I don’t aim for the very top of the published 460 data. If I stay in the middle range or lower of 460 data I feel comfortable using that brass over and over. The few times I ran the loads up towards the top I kept that brass separated and after a couple of those loadings set that brass aside to be trimmed to fit my regular 45acp chambers. Once trimmed for those chambers it gets used right along with all my other Starline 45acp brass.

I tried one time (and only that one time) to shoot regular 45acp loads (Starline 45acp brass) in my Rowland chambered pistol and yeah it worked ok but even at regular hardball load levels (800 to 850 FPS / 230gr projectile) the cci 300 primers looked bad. Noticeable flattening like things were way too hot when I knew darn well things were not at all anywhere near hot... The primers flattened because the 45acp brass was short for the 460Rowland chamber giving false pressure signs.

The other member that mentioned True Blue powder @SeabeeKen - That is a good powder for hotter loads and there is published data for it. I have at least 5 or 6 lbs of that and will buy more if I get down to less than a couple lbs left. If I am loading warm to hot 45acp stuff for a barrel that does not have a compensator - True Blue is the powder I am grabbing. I bet if you tried a lb you would like it too!

Anything with a comp and I am sticking with the AA#7 every time! Not at all economical but it makes stuff go really fast without insane pressure and because it is so bulky it will provide all the gasses you need to properly ‘work’ a compensator.

I’ve got bullseye, zip, true blue and aa#7 all on hand for 45 type stuff and honestly never even bother with the faster powders (bullseye or zip) any more. Yeah the faster powders are more ‘economical’ if only making plinking fodder but you are limited in what you can do with them velocity wise and they sure as heck ain’t going to make enough gasses to work any sort of comp.

Appreciate you sharing your data and experience sir. Wishing you good shooting!

Suggest Ramshot Enforcer and AA9 with CCI 350
Like H110 in 44 Mag is like AA9 only with CCI 350
I haven’t tried Enforcer but what I have read it’s like AA9 .
I use my G21 for bear protection and finishing off moose if needed here in Alaska. I have Rowland muzzle brake but never have used it !

 

[Aaron23]

Suggest Ramshot Enforcer and AA9 with CCI 350

I got those exact primers on hand but they is set aside for my plastic bullets.

Have not measured the speed difference myself between them and the 300’s but it is noticeable by the damage they do to the backstop. (Carpet scrap hanging behind target/paper)

300’s and that piece of carpet will last forever. 350’s will pucker the backside noticeably with a single hit. Likely to go through if firing in the same spot more than a few times. (Primer powered only - no powder)



300’s can and do reliably light off any of the powders I am currently using in 45 related stuff regardless of if the powder is slow or fast. These are not magnum sort of rounds so...

Sadly, I can’t buy any more powder until I use up a bunch of what I have already. I am trying the best I can but...

If you have not already - Will gladly suggest you look into Zero bullets from rose distribution. Very good quality and can be driven hard and fast while still being accurate. Very inexpensive considering the quality in my opinion...

 

[Brian.Egeberg64]

I personally use aa#7 and regular cci lpp

Can you share your recipe?

 

[Aaron23]

Can you share your recipe?

Hopefully I am posting this link correctly-

https://hodgdonpowderco.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/WesternPowdersHandloadingGuide8.0_WEB-1.pdf

That’s 45acp data for AA#7, True Blue, Zip and others...


The data for 45acp and 45acp+p start on page 38 of the pdf file.


Or were you asking about 460Rowland data??


Something to keep in mind as well when trying to just plug in another guys ‘recipe’ - All pistols are different and even if you and me were both shooting the same exact loads and had ‘similar’ pistols the spring weights required to keep everything running smoothly may not necessarily be the same for both of us.

Those Johnny Rowland videos where he empties a magazine of 45acp ammo and then (without changing anything else but the mag) switches to a magazine of full power 460Rowland ammo and fires those off are bull crap. If the gun is sprung correctly for regular 45acp ammo and then you go to popping of full power 460Rowland rounds without changing anything - it ‘might’ work but your brass is going to land in the next time zone and you are going to beat the piss out of the frame on your pistol (and wrist). If sprung correctly for those full power 460 rounds and then you go to pop off regular 45acp rounds without changing anything - those rounds may not even cycle the action at all let alone lock back open on the empty magazine...

 

[Brian.Egeberg64]

Hopefully I am posting this link correctly-

https://hodgdonpowderco.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/WesternPowdersHandloadingGuide8.0_WEB-1.pdf

That’s 45acp data for AA#7, True Blue, Zip and others...


The data for 45acp and 45acp+p start on page 38 of the pdf file.


Or were you asking about 460Rowland data??


Something to keep in mind as well when trying to just plug in another guys ‘recipe’ - All pistols are different and even if you and me were both shooting the same exact loads and had ‘similar’ pistols the spring weights required to keep everything running smoothly may not necessarily be the same for both of us.

Those Johnny Rowland videos where he empties a magazine of 45acp ammo and then (without changing anything else but the mag) switches to a magazine of full power 460Rowland ammo and fires those off are bull crap. If the gun is sprung correctly for regular 45acp ammo and then you go to popping of full power 460Rowland rounds without changing anything - it ‘might’ work but your brass is going to land in the next time zone and you are going to beat the piss out of the frame on your pistol (and wrist). If sprung correctly for those full power 460 rounds and then you go to pop off regular 45acp rounds without changing anything - those rounds may not even cycle the action at all let alone lock back open on the empty magazine...

Thank you I was interested in 45 super loading data. I have been loading for 40 years so I’m always cautious and check several sources before I load someone else’s recipe! I generally use #5 for standard 45 acp and #7 for plus P and Super loads. This Summer I will be doing some testing with my two Glock clones set up for 45 Super. Will work up rounds in .2 grain increments using 45 Super brass and 230 FMJ.

 

[Alaska Bush Man]

Thank you I was interested in 45 super loading data. I have been loading for 40 years so I’m always cautious and check several sources before I load someone else’s recipe! I generally use #5 for standard 45 acp and #7 for plus P and Super loads. This Summer I will be doing some testing with my two Glock clones set up for 45 Super. Will work up rounds in .2 grain increments using 45 Super brass and 230 FMJ.

I never used 230gr since it’s made for 45 ACP velocity. If this is for a trail pistol the 250 XTP Hornady is an excellent bullet in the 45 Super. 1.190”. Longshot Powder was excellent anywhere between 8.0 to 9.0 pick your velocity 1000fps to 1124fps in WW Brass and WLP primer. No sign of pressure in KKM 4.6” barrel in G21 with 22/24 spring .

 

[Brian.Egeberg64]

I never used 230gr since it’s made for 45 ACP velocity. If this is for a trail pistol the 250 XTP Hornady is an excellent bullet in the 45 Super. 1.190”. Longshot Powder was excellent anywhere between 8.0 to 9.0 pick your velocity 1000fps to 1124fps in WW Brass and WLP primer. No sign of pressure in KKM 4.6” barrel in G21 with 22/24 spring .

I wanted something to hunt hogs with and the FMJ and hard cast bullets penetrate very well. I will eventually get another mold for a 250 grain bullet but currently only have the 200 grain mold in 45 acp currently. I have 800 pounds of linotype and 20 plus year old wheel weights so when I retire I’ll have more fun exploring these adventures. The FMJ penetrates well and barely flattens the nose from what I can tell. I’m betting it would hold up at 45 Super velocities.

I used plus P in my 45 acp carbine with good results. It’s likely pretty close velocity wise to Super in a pistol. My goal will be to do a Texas hog hunt with a 45 carbine and pistol.

Also, highly recommend a comp on a glock in 45 Super. I have them on both of my guns now and it cuts recoil a bunch.

 

[Aaron23]

I never used 230gr since it’s made for 45 ACP velocity.

With quality jacketed bullets the sky is the limit.

There is nothing inferior about 230 grain bullets that should cause a person to shop them slower