45 ACP reloading question

[sigma2chi]

I've been reloading for a while mainly .308 but some .223 and revolver stuff too. Just started with my 45 ACP and am having issues.

Using:
Federal Small Primer brass
Winchester Small Pistol Primers
Vhita Vouri N310 - 4.2 gr
Berry's 230 gr Copper Ball bullets.

I am at book max on the powder and am 1/8 twist past contact for my crimp on the bullets. I didn't think the small Primers could make that much of a difference based off some articles I read.

Nonetheless this recipe is only producing 692 fps average on the Chrono. Any ideas why I'm not closer to 750+ range?? I've heard making a more aggressive crimp will exponentially increase chamber pressure while only giving me marginal gains in velocity...

 

[jr600yd]

Small pistol primers? Thought the 45 acp took large?

 

[rduckwor]

Where do you stand in the load range for that powder? Low mid high? Doubtful the difference between a SPP and LPP would cause that low a velocity.

Also, remember that chronos are not fail proof.

RMD

 

[bheadboy]

45acp as all auto rounds must not be roll crimp to have best results, the taper crimp die will solve that for you.

velocity can be a function of a lot of things, ignition (small primer) chamber/throat, and bbl condition

you said noting about the pistol, is it new, is the bbl factory, how long is your bbl, are the cases trimmed to length, is the die set to taper the crimp?

buying volume pistol bullets you will often find they are undersized as the sellers are edgie about pressure, try another bullet by another maker - use a set of mikes to see if the are .451 or less - if less you will have less pressure and less velocity. if you try cast bullets look for .452 dia to get good results you do not need hard cast for 45 velocities.

I have loaded well over 20,000 45s and shot more than that GI so these are some of my experience.

Bob

 

[sigma2chi]

Thank you all so very much for the insight so far.

The gun is a like new full size glock.
The bullets mic'd at .452
This is the max book charge powder wise.
Most 45 acp is LP Primer but the champion federal now uses small pistol and that's the brass I was reloading.
My crimp is a roll crimp. Didn't realize this was a bad thing. Will have to order a taper crimp now

 

[mac86951]

Taper crimpnhas already been mentioned, but +1. What is your overall length? I have both small and large primer brass and using bullseye its less than 40fps difference for me with a 255 grain.

 

[chkunz]

As implied above, you do not crimp the case on the 45 ACP, it headspaces on the lip of the case. This also means you have to control the case length to get the proper head space. All this is critical for reloading this cartridge.

 

[bheadboy]

Glocks have poly rifling, not lands and grove, I have found them to produce different velocity so don't look at the charts as they were tested with regular rifling in the bbls.

if you are into Vit powders the n330 -n340 are better choice for the 200-230 bullets - lots of other good powder choices, but the fastes I would used is Bulleye and the slowest Unique or N340.

Bob

 

[wboggs]

Bob Any insights into N320 for 200 gr SWC? Thanks Bill

 

[bheadboy]

Bill, good afternoon,
I have used the Hensley and Gibbs 200Keith mold for 45 years and it is great, the powders I used for bulleye shooting and ipsc settled on the same though from time to time I used what I had.

the tested, vit 330/vit 340 Bulleye, Unique, Clays, 700x, 231, and settled on BE, Unique, Clays, 700x as the most consistent and accurate depending on availability

my preference is BE or Unique for cast and Jacketed, I have H&G 185 molds as well and the same loads work there. for jacked I strictly stay with unique or Clays.

SD/ES are good and velocities in the 850 for target and 905-915 for Ipsc using 200 cast which give the 18,000 power factor -sized .452 in Star sizers - taper crimp length 1.24

I have used these loads Gold cup, 4 different Gi Match trued pistols, Kimber and SW - today I prefer them in the Kimber

Bob

Bob

 

[wboggs]

Wish I could locate the BE or Unique but none is to be had. Some of the guys use 231 and claim it is cleaner but I can't find that either.
Thanks
Bill Boggs

 

[bheadboy]

Bill, I am sending you a pm,,
Check it.

Bob

 

[wildfowler]

I never tried N310 with bullets that heavy. I did have the most accurate and soft shooting 185 SWC load I've ever experienced. I do recall the velocity was a little light, but wow it is accurate. I think there might be better powders to try with that bullet if you're concerned with velocity?

Regarding crimp. I use a Lee factory crimp die and adjust just past the minimum needed to ensure reliable operation.

 

[MrMajestic]

Power Pistol or VV N340 will make the 230's sing if that's what you're looking for.

 

[riflewoman]

When you taper crimp you want to crimp to about ,468 to .470 diameter, not to just get reliable functioning.

 

[ebb]

WBoggs it has been stated that some of the Hogdon powders and Winchester powders have identical load data and are the same, like H414 and win 760. Win 231 and Hogdon hp38 are the same. Maybe this will help in finding some.