45 ACP bolt gun benchrest

[Gee]

Having spent 35 years shooting and loving 45ACP handguns, I thought it time to acquire a bolt action rifle in this calibre.

Imagine my dismay at holding only 5 to 6 inch groups at 50 yards with 200 gr SWC lead and 5.5gr Bullseye. Can't reliably hit a coke can.
Great accuracy at 25 yards, but who shoots a rifle at 25 yards ?

Only the 300gr Sierra Game King and the Hornady 250gr FTX give 1 inch groups at 50 yards. They won't fit in the Tanfoglio pistol magazine that this custom bolt rifle uses, and the 300 gr barely fits in the case, bulging the case side wall at the base of the head, and is thus very tight to chamber. They are also extremely expensive heads to plink with.

250gr SWC lead offer 2 to 3 inch groups at 50 yards.

Twist is 1-16.

I would like to find a head that fits in the magazine, is cost effective to plink with and holds a one inch group at 50 yards, which is 2 MOA. Normally I would. Ot bother with a rifle that can't at least hold to 1 MOA, but it's 45 ACP and we all love 45ACP, I guess it is respectfully cut some slack.

To make matters worse, it has a silencer, but subsonic rounds are still so loud ear plugs are needed or ones ears are left ringing.

I am wondering about rebarrelling to .40 Super (45 ACP in a much stronger case head necked down), as a means to much better down range accuracy and muzzle energy at near 44 Mag levels.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/.40_Super#section_1

Gee

 

[H2OBUG]

Don't throw it out until you try a 250 & 300 Hornady XTP (std not mag) with a good roll crimp over 6.5- 6.8 gr of Unique-- you may be able to even stoke it up a bit more in the rifle. What action are you using?? How much freebore do you have??-- If ?? And If you have enough freebore and case volume I might even try 2400-- keep in mind with the mag issues you have it may be a single shot

 

[cmillard]

do you have pictures? i am guessing that the 16" twist is liking the heavier bullets as a 24" twist might work with the lighter bullets. what is your barrel length? .460 rowland is also a great cartridge

 

[dan06]

Check your cast bullet diameter......I have a les baer 1911 that shoots that good. but it needed .452 lead bullets to do it. It wouldn't shoot worth a crap with .450-.451 bullets. It also really likes Zero 200gr JHP.

For accuracy work I find most FMJ bullets to be crap.

You might also try to trim your brass so that all your crimps are consistant. You can also use brass that has been fired the same amount of times. It makes a big differenece in accuracy in a revlover.

 

[bozo699]

Having spent 35 years shooting and loving 45ACP handguns, I thought it time to acquire a bolt action rifle in this calibre.

Imagine my dismay at holding only 5 to 6 inch groups at 50 yards with 200 gr SWC lead and 5.5gr Bullseye. Can't reliably hit a coke can.
Great accuracy at 25 yards, but who shoots a rifle at 25 yards ?

Only the 300gr Sierra Game King and the Hornady 250gr FTX give 1 inch groups at 50 yards. They won't fit in the Tanfoglio pistol magazine that this custom bolt rifle uses, and the 300 gr barely fits in the case, bulging the case side wall at the base of the head, and is thus very tight to chamber. They are also extremely expensive heads to plink with.

250gr SWC lead offer 2 to 3 inch groups at 50 yards.

Twist is 1-16.

I would like to find a head that fits in the magazine, is cost effective to plink with and holds a one inch group at 50 yards, which is 2 MOA. Normally I would. Ot bother with a rifle that can't at least hold to 1 MOA, but it's 45 ACP and we all love 45ACP, I guess it is respectfully cut some slack.

To make matters worse, it has a silencer, but subsonic rounds are still so loud ear plugs are needed or ones ears are left ringing.

I am wondering about rebarrelling to .40 Super (45 ACP in a much stronger case head necked down), as a means to much better down range accuracy and muzzle energy at near 44 Mag levels.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/.40_Super#section_1

Gee

Gee,
Welcome to the forum, they may say they should be sub-sonic but there not or they would be quiet.
Wayne.

 

[dooley]

Hi Gee, it looks like you have one of armalons rifles, we all loved the 45acp in pistols but armalon makes them from old 303s, he also made a 9mm version,
I tried them both,at 50yds you should be able to get 3inch groups with the right load but I would not expect any better, myself I'm looking at southern gun co's 9mm blowback, I had the previous model but sold it so I could buy the newer version. Regards, dooley (UK)

 

[Gee]

Hi Wayne,

The 45ACP bolt gun really is subsonic, I chrono the reloads, and it still makes ones ears ring even with the integral full length can. I think rubber baffles would be needed to really silence it, as low pressure large diameter bore is hard to silence....so I believe. Hence it is a disappointment to have to wear ear protection. I'm sure 9mm would be much quieter subsonic. But there are not many people shooting silenced bolt guns in pistol calibre.

I have a hollywood quiet 6.8SPC bolt gun that shoots the 115 gr Sierra with wonderful accuracy both supersonic and subsonic. It's so great to have a rifle calibre where the twist works to stabilise both supersonic and sub.

Recently I was highly amused to make a 3 shot one inch group at 159 yards, subsonic in 308, using Trail Boss and the Sierra 200gr SMK, 1-9 twist, 16 inch barrel. The AW Covert. There was zero wind. The rifle weighs 28 lbs with an empty magazine.....which is a pain and you don't need all that weight to shoot 308 subs accurately.

I wonder what accuracy the 450 Bushmaster would have with subs ? Its lovely to see those 1 inch groups at 100 yards with full power loads using the 250gr Hornady XTP. But I wonder if the very slow 1-24 twist would keep any accuracy subsonic ? 45ACP is 1-16 twist and who gets 1 inch at 100 yards with a 45ACP bolt gun ? Have managed one inch at 50 yards as described earlier, but need more testing. Fun, fun fun !

Gee

 

[Gee]

The Hornady 250 gr flex tip is the most accurate...at 1inch 50 yard groups, but huge cost to plink with. Have tried .452" 250gr SWC hard cast lead meant for 45Colt, but no great accuracy either. Thus I believe http://www.corbins.com/ is the way to go. If I make a round nose flat point boat tail i should get the heavest possible round into the 45 ACP case that will not bulge the side wall at the bullets base.

Incidentally, I cross test using the same heads at the same 1-16 twist by having also on hand a 45Win mag bolt gun. It shows better accuracy when pushing higher velocities if a strong jacketed head is used. Cheap open lead base military FmJ's dont hold accuracy at 45 Win Mag velocities. If I shoot the same powder charge and head in 45 Win mag as in 45ACP, both rifles show the same group size.

Cheers,

Gee

 

[XTR]

There is a whole 'nother science to shooting cast bullets (or Boolits as they are known in some places)

With cast and no gas checks you are limited to a max of about 1400FPS, and realistically for accurate shooting limit it to about 1200. If you shoot Gas Checks you can get it up higher.

Check out The Cast Boolits forum for lots more info. I've been battling with trying to get a 45/70 to shoot cast and learning what you can and cant do and be accurate.

 

[racesnake]

Sounds like you have a mediocre barrel. I've built bullseye and tactical pistols for years and they all shot 10 ring @ 50yds. for 10 shots. The 10 ring on a 50 yd. target is 3" dia. If I didn't use a good barrel they wouldn't do it.
I also have an AR15 in 9mm which shoots1 1/2"-2" 5 shot groups @ 100 yds. using 115gr Win HP's. This rifle is Made by Olympic Arms and I'm pretty sure they make a 45 version.

 

[articmp]

The De Lisle (?) carbine in 45ACP was known to be crazy quite. It was a modified 303 Brit that used a vented barrel with external baffles around the barrel. If you can get a buddy across the pond to give you the full specs and the current nomenclature, you could research it a bit and see what they expected from a subsonic bolt gun. I can't remember exactly when it was fielded, but up to a few years ago, it was still in use by the SAS. US MACVSOG loved the things in Vietnam for taking out VC sentrys.

 

[TonyR]

The De Lisle (?) carbine in 45ACP was known to be crazy quite. It was a modified 303 Brit that used a vented barrel with external baffles around the barrel. If you can get a buddy across the pond to give you the full specs and the current nomenclature, you could research it a bit and see what they expected from a subsonic bolt gun. I can't remember exactly when it was fielded, but up to a few years ago, it was still in use by the SAS. US MACVSOG loved the things in Vietnam for taking out VC sentrys.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Lisle_carbine