45-70 ( Strong Action ) Single Shot Load

[Yule]

Hi Guys,

Just looking for options for my Browning single shot, 45-70. Looking for powder and high BC bullet combinations. I read that 2100 fps is a good place to find accuracy. I have Hornady 325 FTX and Barnes 300 TTSX. Was thinking about trying the Arrowhead 310 that I shoot in my SML. Would like to use H4198 or A2015. Reloader 7 is another one that I have used in the past.

Thoughts?

 

[mongo chicago]

Check reloading manuals or powder makers websites.

 

[XTR]

Just get a lyman manual. It has 3 sets of load data for the 45-70, one set for old trapdoor springfields, one set for lever guns and a set for Ruger#1s.

I've played with my Winchester Highwall up to the Ruger #1 range with 325s and 350s up to about 2400 FPS. In an 8 lb rifle it is a slobberknocker. In the end I got smarter and realized that no mater how hard you push those big pills they still drop like a rock. These days I load Remington 405s at about 1600 or 1800FPS (still rattles your fillings) and use it for under 200 yards. It will shoot through just about anything it hits.

Your 2100 target velocity with the 325/350s is reasonable. You'll have to experiment with powders and see what works for you. Rx7 is a good choice, 4198 works, so does AA5744. I'm using 3031 under my 405s.

If you have not shot a thumper pushing hard you are in for a surprise. The torque is huge, it's not easy to shoot small groups with them when you are pushing them that fast.

 

[Jerod McComas]

Rx7 under a hard cast 405 lead bullet and you can get 2200fps. they are very stiff loads but will punch through most anything you shoot at. Bear and hogs don't stand even a remote chance.

 

[painter]

I load 51 gr imr 4198 i a marlin 1895 with 350 gr hornadys, it has some recoil.

 

[wboggs]

What do you intend to use it for? I used to have a Browning like yours and used cast most of the time. As others have mentioned, recoil is really heavy.
Tell use your use and I can give you some good ideas.
Bill

 

[Zero333]

Hodgdons site has separate load data for the 45-70 in "Modern Rifles"

325 FTX
H-4198
2.650" COAL
Start = 52 gr
MAX = 56 gr

300 TTSX
H-4198
2.775" COAL
Start = 53 gr
MAX = 56 gr

Hodgdon lists the MAX load generating 46,500 - 46,700 CUP (roughly around 51,500 PSI).
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Runing some #'s in Quickload with the same COAL as Hodgdon's and roughly the same pressures as Hodgdon but with AA-2015 with the 325 FTX, the case start's to compress the AA-2015 powder at 55 gr and around 41,000 psi.

Cartridge : .45-70 Govt. CIP
Bullet : .458, 325, Hornady FTX 45015
Useable Case Capaci: 58.255 grain H2O = 3.782 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.650" inch = 67.31 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm
Powder : Accurate 2015

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 87 44.80 1798 2334 22405 3085 87.7 1.694
-18.0 89 45.92 1842 2449 23898 3180 88.9 1.651
-16.0 92 47.04 1886 2568 25506 3272 90.1 1.609
-14.0 94 48.16 1931 2690 27234 3361 91.2 1.568 ! Near Maximum !
-12.0 96 49.28 1975 2814 29095 3447 92.3 1.528 ! Near Maximum !
-10.0 98 50.40 2019 2941 31102 3529 93.3 1.490 ! Near Maximum !
-08.0 100 51.52 2063 3071 33266 3606 94.3 1.452 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-06.0 102 52.64 2107 3204 35604 3679 95.1 1.415 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-04.0 105 53.76 2151 3339 38124 3748 95.9 1.377 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-02.0 107 54.88 2195 3476 40822 3811 96.7 1.340 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+00.0 109 56.00 2239 3616 43718 3869 97.3 1.303 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.0 111 57.12 2282 3759 46848 3921 97.9 1.267 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 113 58.24 2326 3904 50236 3968 98.4 1.232 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-------------------------------

As you can see QL shows 56 gr of AA-2015 is at 109% case fill generating almost 44,000 psi. 2,239 fps & 3,616 ft-lbs of Energy.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
This scenario is even worst with the 300gr TTSX

AA-2015 with 300 TTSX....

Cartridge : .45-70 Govt. CIP
Bullet : .458, 300, Barnes 'TTSX' BT 45872
Useable Case Capaci: 55.214 grain H2O = 3.585 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.750" inch = 69.85 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm
Powder : Accurate 2015

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 87 42.40 1760 2065 20696 2757 82.8 1.700
-18.0 89 43.46 1804 2168 21966 2850 84.1 1.658
-16.0 91 44.52 1847 2273 23327 2941 85.4 1.617
-14.0 94 45.58 1891 2382 24793 3031 86.7 1.577
-12.0 96 46.64 1935 2494 26364 3118 87.9 1.538
-10.0 98 47.70 1979 2609 28055 3202 89.1 1.500 ! Near Maximum !
-08.0 100 48.76 2023 2727 29875 3284 90.2 1.463 ! Near Maximum !
-06.0 102 49.82 2067 2847 31838 3363 91.2 1.427 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-04.0 105 50.88 2112 2971 33952 3438 92.3 1.392 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-02.0 107 51.94 2156 3097 36242 3510 93.2 1.358 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+00.0 109 53.00 2201 3226 38717 3577 94.1 1.325 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.0 111 54.06 2245 3358 41402 3640 94.9 1.292 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 113 55.12 2290 3493 44314 3699 95.7 1.260 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 115 56.18 2334 3630 47482 3753 96.5 1.226 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

As you can see 53 gr of AA-2015 is 109% case fill, 2,201 fps, 3,226 ft-lbs Energy.
To generate around 47,500 psi with this combo the case fill is 115%.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RL-7 is a better option....

300TTSX & RL-7

Cartridge : .45-70 Govt. CIP
Bullet : .458, 300, Barnes 'TTSX' BT 45872
Useable Case Capaci: 55.214 grain H2O = 3.585 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.750 inch = 69.85 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm
Powder : Alliant Reloder-7

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 83 40.80 1881 2356 26292 2874 90.0 1.579
-18.0 85 41.82 1924 2465 27890 2955 91.0 1.540 ! Near Maximum !
-16.0 87 42.84 1966 2576 29597 3034 92.0 1.503 ! Near Maximum !
-14.0 89 43.86 2009 2688 31418 3110 93.0 1.466 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-12.0 91 44.88 2051 2803 33363 3184 93.9 1.431 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-10.0 93 45.90 2094 2920 35438 3254 94.7 1.396 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-08.0 95 46.92 2136 3039 37654 3320 95.5 1.363 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-06.0 97 47.94 2178 3160 40021 3383 96.2 1.331 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-04.0 99 48.96 2220 3283 42550 3443 96.8 1.299 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-02.0 102 49.98 2262 3407 45254 3498 97.4 1.268 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+00.0 104 51.00 2303 3533 48148 3549 97.9 1.236 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.0 106 52.02 2344 3661 51248 3596 98.4 1.206 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

As you can see 51 gr of RL-7 with the 300TTSX generates (theoretically) 48,148 psi, 2,303 fps. 104% case fill.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Cartridge : .45-70 Govt. CIP
Bullet : .458, 325, Hornady FTX 45015
Useable Case Capaci: 58.255 grain H2O = 3.782 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.650" inch = 67.31 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm
Powder : Alliant Reloder-7

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 80 41.60 1849 2468 26090 3037 92.4 1.630
-18.0 82 42.64 1891 2580 27714 3118 93.3 1.590 ! Near Maximum !
-16.0 84 43.68 1932 2694 29441 3197 94.2 1.551 ! Near Maximum !
-14.0 86 44.72 1973 2810 31277 3272 95.0 1.513 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-12.0 88 45.76 2014 2927 33229 3344 95.8 1.477 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-10.0 90 46.80 2055 3046 35304 3412 96.5 1.442 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-08.0 92 47.84 2095 3167 37511 3476 97.2 1.407 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-06.0 94 48.88 2135 3289 39858 3537 97.7 1.371 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-04.0 96 49.92 2175 3413 42356 3593 98.2 1.337 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-02.0 98 50.96 2214 3538 45015 3645 98.7 1.303 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+00.0 100 52.00 2253 3665 47849 3692 99.1 1.271 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.0 102 53.04 2292 3792 50869 3734 99.4 1.241 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
------------------------------------------------

The COAL makes a huge difference in the chamber pressure. Shorter COAL generates more pressure.
Take this data with a grain of salt and no matter who's data you're using always reduce and work up slowly.

 

[perry42]

Trail Boss powder (used in SASS) can be used in 45-70 and similar large cases.

perry42

 

[rebel]

I use 3031 under a 300 gr. HP. Marlin lever gun. Shoots nice tight groups when I use a Lead Sled
Bought that thing just for the Marlins 45-70 and 444.

 

[Bugs]

50 grains of 3031 and a 300 grain Sierra works well out of a Navy Arms highwall reproduction and/or a Shiloh. The Shiloh is my long range doe gun!

 

[NA Woody]

Lee makes a cast bullet mold called- 459 -500-3R that makes a 500 grain pointed round nose bullet. Probably the highest BC bullet available. These bullets work well at long range and are easy to cast if you have just minimal equipment.
Try loading these 500 gr. slugs with black powder as it is the least complicated load ever and fun to shoot. I guarantee you will be grinning when you fire these loads....and others at the range will be coming over to see what you are shooting!
The 45-70 is one of the best cartridges of all time. You can load it up to near .458 magnum power or down to plinking loads that anyone would enjoy. The lower power loads are a lot more fun!

 

[XTR]

I am not familiar with the lee mould, but I seriously doubt it's got a better BC than a Paul Jones "Money Bullet" design

 

[wboggs]

I and many of my buddies have used the Paul Jones money bullet for years. Thousands of rounds, it is the gold standard.

 

[Jerod McComas]

If you are using the rifle for hunting, a good hard cast lead bullet will outperform even the best-jacketed bullets. For penetration, there is no comparison to a hard cast bullet until you get to a monolithic solid. Find a bullet with a wide meplat and the energy it delivers is amazing.

 

[wboggs]

Agree with cast bullets in the Browning. Amazing performance. Only problem I had was seeing sights near dawn and dusk. Check out your ability to see around dark.