45-70 in a 45-90 rifle

[Feemster]

I was discussing the possibility of shooting a 45-70 in a rifle chambered for a 45-90 when a knowledgeable individual advised strongly against it. The comment was that the chamber would be damaged, that the bullet would "hop" about before entering the rifling and that the accuracy of the rifle would be ruined. Any one on this forum wish to express an opinion?
-jd

 

[LESLEY]

i have both a 45-70 and a 40-90 i would not fire a 45-70 in a 45-90 your asking for trouble

 

[Cheechako]

What kinda trouble???? Ever hear of Weatherby freebore? Or how about revolvers where the bullet "hops" from cylinder to forcing cone?

Ray

 

[km71107]

I have an H&R Buffalo Classic in 45/70 that I am considering rechambering to 45/90. All of the research I've done says it is ok to fire 45/70 in a 45/90. The only difference is about 3/10" case length. Firing the 45/70 in a 45/90 chamber is the same concept as firing 38spl in a 357, with the same problems. Fouling and lead can build up in the front of the chamber and can cause problems chambering 45/90 ammo. Hope this helps. By the way, watch out for that Buffalo Classic with heavy loads off of a bench! 20rds was quite enough fun for me for one day!

 

[Feemster]

I wonder if it is a bigger issue when shooting black powder than with factory loads. Searching the internet doesn't bring up a lot on this topic, but what I do see seems to confirm the opinion that shooting 45-70 in a 45-90 is OK.

 

[km71107]

Black powder fouling could build up in the chamber. If it's cleaned properly before firing 45/90 ammo, there wouldn't be a problem with fouling.

 

[Islander]

45-70 in 45-90 is the same as .38 in .357 I have shot thousands of both 45-70 & 45-90 with black & smokeless you can safely shoot a 45-70 in a 45-90 it is a long jump for the bullet accuracy suffers. In my experince cast lead bullets should be in the lands or very close for best accuracy.
Bob

 

[JRS]

45-70 in 45-90 is the same as .38 in .357 I have shot thousands of both 45-70 & 45-90 with black & smokeless you can safely shoot a 45-70 in a 45-90 it is a long jump for the bullet accuracy suffers. In my experince cast lead bullets should be in the lands or very close for best accuracy.
Bob

This thread is 10 years old and the OP has not posted here since 2007.

 

[XTR]

 

[joshb]

Maybe because he tried it and it "didn't work in his rifle"

 

[17VLD]

I know this is an old thread....but a friend at work would like to shoot his Winchester 1886 in 45-90.He found the dies the other day among his grandfathers things and has taken the rifle to a reputable gunsmith to have it checked out.The gunsmith said it is in beautiful,mechanically sound shape.I know Starline makes 45-90 brass,but it’s almost $250 to buy a bag of brass from them.Was wondering if anyone on this board would be willing to part with 50 or 100 pcs of brass,or can suggest someone who might have some.I really would like to use the correct brass,although I thought about trying a few shots with plentiful 45-70 brass.Thinking out loud here.
Matt

 

[TIMO]

Matt,
the last I bought was priced by the piece, but that was a a number of years ago. Keep searching. Might look at Single Shot Exchange.

Tim

 

[msinc]

I know this is an old thread....but a friend at work would like to shoot his Winchester 1886 in 45-90.He found the dies the other day among his grandfathers things and has taken the rifle to a reputable gunsmith to have it checked out.The gunsmith said it is in beautiful,mechanically sound shape.I know Starline makes 45-90 brass,but it’s almost $250 to buy a bag of brass from them.Was wondering if anyone on this board would be willing to part with 50 or 100 pcs of brass,or can suggest someone who might have some.I really would like to use the correct brass,although I thought about trying a few shots with plentiful 45-70 brass.Thinking out loud here.
Matt

You can shoot 45-70 in a 45-90 as long as you don't do it with ammo that goes outside the safe pressure range of the 45-90. Remember, the 45-90 was always a black powder cartridge, the 45-70 was a "cross over" gun and was loaded with both. Couple that with the fact that there are modernized versions of the 45-70 chambered guns that use even more pressure. Reloading manuals list the 45-70 under several different classifications and they explain why, it's because of the pressures involved.
Consider the 1886 Winchester rifle, one made in 1886 with "Black Powder" on the barrel should probably not be fired with reloads intended for a modern steel made 45-70 manufactured in the last 30 years.
That said, I believe all of today's manufactured 45-70 smokeless ammo is loaded to be safe in "guns designed to fire smokeless powder".
Bottom line, maximum powder reloads for use in a Marlin 95 or some bolt action 45-70 made today are not safe in an old 1886. It will probably fire them but you only have one pair of eyes!!!

 

[watercam]

It seems to me one could load the 45-70 with the bullets seated 3/10ths long and alleviate the issues at hand. Eliminates bullet jump but not powder fouling in the chamber.
Heavier bullets (400+ gr.) would be the easiest to deal with. One might need to add additional filler as well but factory loads all have one sort or another.

 

[XTR]

Is it an old or a modern '86. What pressure is it rated for?

I don't believe anyone has loaded off the shelf smokeless 45-90s. If you get some of the Remington or other loads rated for the '73 Springfield you should be fine, but the real fun would be loading it with the correct brass with black and cast bullets.

 

[17VLD]

Thank you for all the great replies.Found new 45-90 Starline brass on GB in bags of 50 which will be perfect for what my coworker needs.The gun is 120 years old and we will definitely proceed with caution and the correct brass.I look forward to shooting a beautiful piece of history.
Matt

 

[XTR]

If you and/or your friend are going down the path to the Holy Black and galena then you need to get on castboolits.com and the Shiloh forums.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/

http://www.shilohrifle.com/forums/

Like this place has a wealth of knowledge in shooting accurate center fire rifles, those forums have as much on shooting black powder and casting boolits. It is a whole different world from what we do with modern bottleneck cases.

 

[drcook]

DO NOT, I repeat DO NOT, shoot the rifle with BP and then not clean it. BP residue will cause corrosion and rust if left uncleaned. After cleaning, make sure you oil the gun inside and out.

Additionally, the same applies for the brass. If you cannot clean that day, take a milk jug, put some dish soap in it and put the brass in to soak. While it will discolor the brass, it will stop any corrosive action. I have traveled back from a match in Nebraska to Ohio, with my brass soaking for days with no adverse affects.

You are going to end up cleaning the rifle from the muzzle, unless you disassemble that lever action. Get a muzzle bore guide and the appropriate cleaning rods. You will need a patch jag, BP solvent, I use Ballistol cut with some water, and pure gum turpentine to lift out the lead. NO SYNTHETIC turpentine, won't work, has to be the pure gum stuff (old BP shooter's trick).

Making a gun go bang with BP is easy, making it shoot accurately is another. BP can be very accurate, this is 5 shots, 200 yards with iron (soule vernier sights).

You are going to need to do research on fouling control. It is more of a challenge with a lever gun, than the big single shots. Some folks use just a small amount (do your research) of smokeless under the BP to help it burn cleaner. Bullet lube is also critical and what you know about smokeless lube doesn't apply to BP.

 

[pirate ammo]

This thread is 10 years old and the OP has not posted here since 2007.

first thing I check,,dates.

 

[XTR]

I know this is an old thread....but a friend at work would like to shoot his Winchester 1886 in 45-90.He found the dies the other day among his grandfathers things and has taken the rifle to a reputable gunsmith to have it checked out.The gunsmith said it is in beautiful,mechanically sound shape.I know Starline makes 45-90 brass,but it’s almost $250 to buy a bag of brass from them.Was wondering if anyone on this board would be willing to part with 50 or 100 pcs of brass,or can suggest someone who might have some.I really would like to use the correct brass,although I thought about trying a few shots with plentiful 45-70 brass.Thinking out loud here.
Matt

Yes, but this post was made yesterday, and was the one to which I was responding. (that pic I posted that you can't see from about two yrs ago was a Zombie thread meme)