440YD Ladder Test 6.5 Creedmoor Savage Long Range Hunter

[DeadWoodDan]

Curious what you think my next steps should be? Or what I should have done different.

I have never done a ladder load at this distance, usually shooting 3-5shot groups at 100. I'm sure my shooting skills need alot of improvement and well this isn't a custom rifle but hoping to see what it and I can do. Just getting back into shooting.

Shot off a bench Bald Eagle front rest and Protector rear rest
SSW 13MPH
49% humidity
46 degrees
Athlon Optics Talos Rifle Scope 6-24x 50mm
Hornady ELD-X 6.5mm, 143 Grain
Magnospeed Sportsman chronograph
Two shot groups. I would shoot the two loads then go mark the target so barrell got to cool a bit between each .3gr increase in powder.
STAball 6.5_Charges thrown on a fx120i /V4
Win. LR
Hornady brass
1) 41.4gr (2554,2582fps)
2) 41.7gr (2607, 2624fps)
3) 42.0gr (2619, 2619fps)
4) 42.3gr (2678, 2640fps)
5) 42.6gr (2648,2691fps)
6) 42.9gr (2701, 2696fps)
7) 43.2gr (2705, 2700fps)
8) 43.5gr ( 2732,2711fps)
9) 43.8gr (2784, 2761fps)
10) 44.1gr (2782,2780fps)
11) 44.4gr (2805,2802fps)

 

[RegionRat]

FWIW, you can see that there is a cluster in the lower part of that pattern, and then some shots from between load 3 and load 6 that jump up and then come back down.

If there is any validity to the results, and you re-tested this on a different day, you would want to see this pattern repeat.

If you wanted to satisfy your curiosity, you would re-test the same ladder and see if it repeated, or, you could just pick something away from those big jumps from 3 - 6 (say a load between 8 and 9, 43.7 gr for example roughly 2750 fps) and see if a larger sample group makes you happy.

Try to pick a day with less wind for load testing if possible. 13 MPH is enough to require some skills if it isn't steady.

If you are just starting out, there is nothing wrong with just picking load 8.5 and practicing at 440 or farther till you can shoot a good group on several different days with varying weather.

When you get some experience, you can revisit the test and see if it still looks the same to you. Take your time and give yourself a chance to learn the ropes. It takes lots of shots in wind and in different weather to drive the gun well out at distance.

If there is a competition club or range nearby, go get yourself adopted by a good mentor. Your skills will climb much faster shooting with folks that can show you the ropes.


Good Luck and in for the range reports.

 

[ronsatspokane]

I've never shot staball but if the burn rate is anywhere near H4350 (which it is supposed to be) then those are pretty hot loads even though the velocities seem low. I don't think that Hornady brass is going to stand up to very many firings. BTDT but every gun is different. How long is your barrel and what twist rate?

As far as your target, The trouble with shooting at distance is that there are a lot of variables that enter the picture and can result in spurious results. For example, look at 4 and 6. If 5 was in the neighborhood I'd say that you might have found a node, but nodes don't behave like that. Increasing and decreasing head or tail winds can explain that. I'd say try again at 100 with 5 rounds per load then jump out to distance testing what you saw at 100. Then again, a soothsayer could come along and read something in your target that I don't see.

I found that in a 30 inch barrel with a 1:8 twist 40.5 to 41.5 of H4350 shoots very well with Berger 140 Hybrid Target bullets. 41.5 gives me about 2835 fps. I shoot small primer Lapua brass these days.

 

[DeadWoodDan]

I've never shot staball but if the burn rate is anywhere near H4350 (which it is supposed to be) then those are pretty hot loads even though the velocities seem low. I don't think that Hornady brass is going to stand up to very many firings. BTDT but every gun is different. How long is your barrel and what twist rate?

As far as your target, The trouble with shooting at distance is that there are a lot of variables that enter the picture and can result in spurious results. For example, look at 4 and 6. If 5 was in the neighborhood I'd say that you might have found a node, but nodes don't behave like that. Increasing and decreasing head or tail winds can explain that. I'd say try again at 100 with 5 rounds per load then jump out to distance testing what you saw at 100. Then again, a soothsayer could come along and read something in your target that I don't see.

I found that in a 30 inch barrel with a 1:8 twist 40.5 to 41.5 of H4350 shoots very well with Berger 140 Hybrid Target bullets. 41.5 gives me about 2835 fps. I shoot small primer Lapua brass these days.

26" 1:8" twist (I need to verify this).

 

[std7mag]

Yeah, I'm in agreement that I wouldn't try to do a ladder test at distance in a 13mph wind.

You say it was coming from SSW. But you don't say which direction that you're shooting.
So to us, it could be a tail wind, head wind, or cross wind.
All will affect the bullet flight charactistics differently.

 

[DeadWoodDan]

Yeah, I'm in agreement that I wouldn't try to do a ladder test at distance in a 13mph wind.

You say it was coming from SSW. But you don't say which direction that you're shooting.
So to us, it could be a tail wind, head wind, or cross wind.
All will affect the bullet flight charactistics differently.

Shooting straight into it .

 

[FeMan]

How did you arrive at the seating depth you used? The target suggests to me that the seating liked loads 5 and 6 but they are not at the node. I’d say there is a low node somewhere in the 1-3 range and a high node at 7-11. Is pick a load in the middle of this, do some seating work to get a solid group and repeat the ladder. FWIW I always do seating first and then do the ladder to find the mode that corresponds to a solid seating depth. If you do a ladder and the change the seating, your ladder could change and produce different results.

 

[jackieschmidt]

To the OP, you are aware that when you remove that MagnetoSpeed Chronograph the barrel harmonics will change, possibly changing your tune?

 

[DeadWoodDan]

How did you arrive at the seating depth you used? The target suggests to me that the seating liked loads 5 and 6 but they are not at the node. I’d say there is a low node somewhere in the 1-3 range and a high node at 7-11. Is pick a load in the middle of this, do some seating work to get a solid group and repeat the ladder. FWIW I always do seating first and then do the ladder to find the mode that corresponds to a solid seating depth. If you do a ladder and the change the seating, your ladder could change and produce different results.

I used the published seating depth for this bullet & powder. I was under the belief that the powder mfg. Data would be close for seating depth?

 

[DeadWoodDan]

To the OP, you are aware that when you remove that MagnetoSpeed Chronograph the barrel harmonics will change, possibly changing your tune?

Looks like i should have low wind early in the morning. I've worked up 5 shots at each charge weight to shot at 100yds. Do you recommend not to use the chronograph?

 

[jelenko]

I would recommend to not use the chrono until you have a load that you like and have tested.
Then you could bring out the chrono - but what would the point be?

 

[DLT]

To the OP, you are aware that when you remove that MagnetoSpeed Chronograph the barrel harmonics will change, possibly changing your tune?

THIS !!!!!!! That is the main reason I shed my magneto speed

 

[FeMan]

I used the published seating depth for this bullet & powder. I was under the belief that the powder mfg. Data would be close for seating depth?

Not at all. Each barrel is different and you need to do this for yourself.

 

[DeadWoodDan]

Got a chance to shoot 5 shot groups at 100yds. Nothing spectacular! I have my POI hitting 2" low. Aiming at the top row POA.

Loading Approximately 0.088" jump to lands. Going to repeat test for seating depth next. Just curious if I should repeat all charges or concentrate on what everyone believes maybe a node? Thinking there maybe a node at #6/7 42.9-43.2. Also #3/4 42.0-42.3....ironically group #1

41.4 is my best group and wondering if I shouldn't revisit that and work lower. @ronsatspokane you had a few observations that that would validate this also!

Charge #7 43.2 gr I have a shot that is way low. As I was marking the impacts I am speculating that I was aiming at the wrong bullseye/target; one below it.

100yds _ clean bore _ no chronograph.
8am
32*F / 84%cloud cover / 62% humidity / E 3mph ( shooting S/W)

Thanks for sharing your thoughts!

 

[JFrank]

I would have focused around shots 1-3 from the first outing.