.44 Mag & Hornady's 265gr FP

[SpinPhd]

Trying to use Hornady's 265gr Interlock FP, Item #4300, but I can't make sense of it. COL being 1.610, and Starting with a case length of 1.275, I just can't see how the dimensions on this make sense. Seating the bullet on but as high as possible on the cannelure, I have a COL of 1.624 and I can't see how to get it shorter. It cycles just fine in my 1894 but I'd like to unravel my confusion.

In Hornady's 9th, they SPECIFICALLY list Trim-to lengths for the newer FTX/Leverevolution bullets as the casing needs to be a bit under trim length. But those are specific lengths and given in the preface to the powder chart for those specific bullets. Unless this special case, the standard dimensions are supposed to apply but I can't see how.

Does anyone have any ideas? Can anyone see what I'm missing or may be doing wrong?

Pics attached FWIW.

Thanks,
Jim
Jim

 

[nastynatesfish]

I don't think the trim to length and the oal are going to match up. If it cycles fine with the bullet at the can elite run it. If you are shortening the case and trying to seat to the cam elite of course your going to be short. Maybe I'm inderstanding your question wrong but. I think you being a little over the book oal your safe.

 

[bigedp51]

As long as the tip of the bullet doesn't protrude from the face of the revolvers cylinder its a moot point. In the Speer manual the longest OAL is 1.665 with their 300 grain bullet.

On a semi-auto its even more adjustable.

Read the posting by Wobbly below, it applies to all semi-auto pistols. And remember when it comes to reloading manuals nothing is written in stone and WHY you work up loads.
And the bullet tip is soft lead and if you measure your bullets they will not all be the same length.


How to determine Max OAL for a CZ Pistol

http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=34225.0

 

[SpinPhd]

Roger that, that's kind of where I was as well. I'm using these in an 1894 lever gun and I've cycled my dummy round from gingerly to slam-bam and the Marlin hasn't hiccupped once.

What gets me is that both my Lyman and Hornady manuals specifically list this bullet, #4300 but specify an COL of 1.61 and from what I'm seeing, that's just not possible. I even measured, as best I could, from the cannelure to the tip, adding to the casing and get a result that's right in the ballpark of my COL.

The manuals describe the gun used for testing, Hornady a Redhawk, the Lyman a Win Mdl 94AE the EXACT OTHER lever gun I want to use these rounds for! And for their 225gr FTX they SPECIFICALLY list a smaller than normal trim-to-length for that entry.

Jeeze, this is more ART than Science than I expected!

Ok, so would it also be right to suggest that, whatever the length is going to be with this bullet, it MUST be crimped AT the cannelure?


And Thanks ya'll! It's really good to have other heads, especially ones with a handle on the ART of all this, to bang on this stuff with.

Jim

 

[SpinPhd]

Just wanted to report, I worked up 4 batches of 3 rds each all +/- .003 of a COL of 1.635" and they all cycled and shot beautifully from my 1894. The loads were mild, to be sure, I started at 19.7gr of IMR 4227 and went up 1.5% for each.

My chronograph reported speeds starting at 1290 up to 1399 with a very slight average bump with each batch.

Moving up 1% seemed rather cautious, but I didn't want to let my newbie skull get too much in the way. So I settled on an increase of 1.5% but I gotta say, it's really challenging to get my powder drop to consistently drop a charge that's +/- .3 grains. Wow. The scientist in me just has to wonder if the equipment we're using is really capable of that level of consistent accuracy or if it's simply a matter of /trying/ to be more accurate than the EQ allows and having a nice safety margin tucked away behind it all.

But I've still got all fingers and toes!

Jim

 

[DocBII]

SpinPHD,

Left these bullets behind, the required length won't work with pistol/rifle combinations I use. Nice idea, however. The gain of an additional 50 yds. is not worth the effort. Great bullet for a .444 Marlin, however.

HTH,
DocB

 

[SpinPhd]

I hear ya. As I've posted the Hornady manual confuses me. They still list the COL as 1.610 but given the position of the cannalure, this is just not possible. Strange, on their 225gr FTX, the red flex tip bullet, they specifically list a much shorter trim length AND a much greater COL of 1.645. But I'm attracted to the technical aspects and terminal ballistics of the 265gr FP for dangerous game. However the LASC has a great article on heavy hitters, http://www.lasc.us/fryxell44overweight.htm, that also demonstrates that 300's and even 320's do stabilize in the slower 1:38" twist of the Marlin so it's something I'm also looking out toward. Still, the 265gr should be a great performing bullet. My 1894 seems to handle the lengths I ended up with today but I am taking a lot of care to start with known case lengths and I'm crimping about as high on the cannelure as I imagine it's sensible.

But let me ask ya'll... so my test rounds today all started today very precisely at a length of 1.280, +/- only .001. My COL's were a little greater than the smallest dummy round I put together last night, as I said previously, at 1.635, +/- .003. Tonight I measured the current length of the cases and they're all about .005 shorter! 1.275, I even had a few that came in 1.2744!

I ran them thru the FL resizer and deprimed them, and they'll all back to 1.280 with a little larger variance.

What to make of this? I've inspected all 12 rounds for stress even though I'm using a very low starting charge. Nothing to report. Before decapping them I inspected the primer seating and had no indication of leakage.

I just don't have the experience to make sense of this.

Anyone have any thoughts?

Jim

PS. re measuring, I was going nuts trying to /really/ use the hornady dial calipers that came with my precision kit. I'm sure they're great and of course I've read tons of pages online about how to use them correctly, and just like I've said about reloading there's a heck of a lot more art to it all than just raw science. Suffice it to say my consistency has really gone up over the last two weeks. Yes, I've had my Hornady LNL AP for 3 weeks now and only just loaded my first 12 rounds! But I still didn't like the variance I was seeing so I invested in a pricey set of Mitutoyo digital calipers and while there's still more variance than I'd like in my hands, I've moved most of that out to the .0001's place and they are amazingly consistent compared to where I was!