38 special cases resizing inconsistant

[Oso]

The crimp in .38 helps with the burn more than you think especially using win 231.... As I stated before I also use it because it's on my bench , I have other powders but I have stuck with 231 and made it work... It is not a great choice though for the .38 spl... After trying a bunch of things a good roll crimp and primer seem to make it work....if useing S&B primers it won't light it off etc you will get a bunch of un burned powder...

The S&B primers are some of the hottest primers. Interesting - I wonder if the S&B primer is strong enough that it is prematurely propelling the bullet before the powder is igniting resulting in only a partial burn before bullet is out of the barrel. Have you tried running the same reload over your chrony with like a CCI primer and S&B primer. I wonder if there is a big difference in velocity? Science experiment!

Win 231 is handy powder that works great for 115gr 9mm and 230gr 45ACP... same powder charge for both and makes power factor. When/if you decide to go with a better suited powder for 38 Spl then give TrailBoss a try. I found that it has great case fill (+60%), clean burning, accurate and gentle recoil impulse.

 

[Rsadams]

The S&B primers are some of the hottest primers. Interesting - I wonder if the S&B primer is strong enough that it is prematurely propelling the bullet before the powder is igniting resulting in only a partial burn before bullet is out of the barrel. Have you tried running the same reload over your chrony with like a CCI primer and S&B primer. I wonder if there is a big difference in velocity? Science experiment!

Win 231 is handy powder that works great for 115gr 9mm and 230gr 45ACP... same powder charge for both and makes power factor. When/if you decide to go with a better suited powder for 39 Spl then give TrailBoss a try. I found that it has great case fill (+60%), clean burning, accurate and gentle recoil impulse.

Yes with CCI it's faster by 15 fps in 9mm and you can tell in the .38 there not lighting off and even sound different compared to the others , using any primer like Winchester , CCI or Federal results in a good burn but S&B leaves unburned powder everytime in the .38 spl... I have never tryed another powder because I use win 231 in most everything else , although I have power pistol and unique around... In 9mm I have used thousands and thousands and thousands of the S&B small pistol with no problems , i still have a few hundred left but now I can't get them local anymore so I will just go with CCI or Winchester in the future... It was hard to pass up the S&B for $19.99 local.... I have heard their rifle primers are hot...


EDIT... I will give trail boss a try... I don't reload for her .38 like I do 9mm so a pound would last a long time... Plus better case fill would be great , I think it's the problem , 231 is barely a quarter full....thanks for the advice....

 

[SSL]

I noticed you say plenty of lube.... There's no reason to lube pistol brass , rifle brass yes....

With most of today's dies, this is true, but I have pistol dies from many years ago (no longer in use, but I'm a pack rat) that are non-carbide and no lube means a stuck case. Wouldn't buy anything but carbide now, but there may still be a lot out there.

 

[Rsadams]

With most of today's dies, this is true, but I have pistol dies from many years ago (no longer in use, but I'm a pack rat) that are non-carbide and no lube means a stuck case. Wouldn't buy anything but carbide now, but there may still be a lot out there.

True i remember those old dies , I don't think you can buy them anymore almost everything is carbide or some form of non stick... Glad I wasn't into it then , lubing rifle brass is bad enough , can't imagine doing pistol brass uhhggg.....

 

[Oso]

Yes with CCI it's faster by 15 fps in 9mm and you can tell in the .38 there not lighting off and even sound different compared to the others , using any primer like Winchester , CCI or Federal results in a good burn but S&B leaves unburned powder everytime in the .38 spl... I have never tryed another powder because I use win 231 in most everything else , although I have power pistol and unique around... In 9mm I have used thousands and thousands and thousands of the S&B small pistol with no problems , i still have a few hundred left but now I can't get them local anymore so I will just go with CCI or Winchester in the future... It was hard to pass up the S&B for $19.99 local.... I have heard their rifle primers are hot...


EDIT... I will give trail boss a try... I don't reload for her .38 like I do 9mm so a pound would last a long time... Plus better case fill would be great , I think it's the problem , 231 is barely a quarter full....thanks for the advice....

Bullseye and TiteGroup have even less case fill than W231. Modern powders are way more potent than blackpowder, which causes its own issue when reloading for legacy cartridges that were originally designed for either black powder or old powders that didn't have advantage of today's modern chemistry/manufacturing technology.

My "Powder Puff" Recipe for 38 Special is a 160gr Round Nose, small magnum pistol primer, and 3.3gr TrailBoss. The average velocity is 690fps and makes IDPA power factor. More importantly the case fill is around 50% before seating the bullet, and afterwards there is very little empty space remaining. Most Importantly it is a pleasure to shoot and a favorite among friends. With my S&W 686 (4" barrel) there is no muzzle flip with nice smooth slow recoil and good accuracy...gun hardly moves!!!

 

[SSL]

The S&B primers are some of the hottest primers. Interesting - I wonder if the S&B primer is strong enough that it is prematurely propelling the bullet before the powder is igniting resulting in only a partial burn before bullet is out of the barrel.

I think you have it there. We all know that a case that is primed but with no powder is perfectly capable of lodging a bullet in the bore. My theory (Scientific Wild Assed Guess) is that the pressure wave from the primer ignition has the speed and ability to start the movement of the bullet prior to the powder igniting which causes incomplete burn with some powders. Adding to that is using powders that lie loosely in the case due to small charges. In effect, the bullet movement increases the interior capacity of the case and causes the powder to ignite and burn but not "explode" unless there is sufficient tension on the bullet provided by a proper crimp to retard that initial bullet movement.

 

[Oso]

Yes, I think it is "flash-over". The chrony results would tell us...I suspect that the velocity would be significantly lower than expected.

 

[Uncle Ed]

I shoot plated bullets in my .357 and .44 Special and only use a taper crimp and have no problems. Meaning with light practice loads a roll crimp is not needed with faster burning powders.

 

[JMayo]

I read the bullet won't go in all the way.
Nothing from the op was about crimp or the first half of the bullet.

Almost like the glock bulge at the base.

 

[ba_50]

Looks like the cylinders were dirtier than I thought. They haven't been used much in 20 years so they must have gummed up. They slip in ok after two days of cleaning.

None of the cases needed trimming.
They are crimped now.

Too cold to shoot.

 

[Link]

I noticed you say plenty of lube.... There's no reason to lube pistol brass , rifle brass yes....

If you notice a big difference in the force it takes to resize pistol brass with a little lube why not go for it? The more you ''force'' your brass the more you change it's dimensions?

 

[ba_50]

If you notice a big difference in the force it takes to resize pistol brass with a little lube why not go for it? The more you ''force'' your brass the more you change it's dimensions?

Not sure what you mean.
The less lube the harder they go in.
It is a standard die.

 

[JMayo]

Looks like the cylinders were dirtier than I thought. They haven't been used much in 20 years so they must have gummed up. They slip in ok after two days of cleaning.

None of the cases needed trimming.
They are crimped now.

Too cold to shoot.

Ahhh, yes my buddies brush cylinder several times during matches.

 

[Rsadams]

If you notice a big difference in the force it takes to resize pistol brass with a little lube why not go for it? The more you ''force'' your brass the more you change it's dimensions?

It certainly won't hurt , but there's no need... I have never experienced forcing pistol brass... But hey if you want to lube pistol brass go for it , it will definitely make it slide into and out of the die easy...

 

[SSL]

Not sure what you mean.
The less lube the harder they go in.
It is a standard die.

By standard die, do you mean non-carbide? If so, really consider carbide dies. No lube needed and much easier on brass. You will enjoy the process more!

 

[kelbro]

Looks like the cylinders were dirtier than I thought. They haven't been used much in 20 years so they must have gummed up. They slip in ok after two days of cleaning.

None of the cases needed trimming.
They are crimped now.

Too cold to shoot.

That's what I mentioned 48 posts ago . Glad you got it figured out.

 

[pirate ammo]

True i remember those old dies , I don't think you can buy them anymore almost everything is carbide or some form of non stick... Glad I wasn't into it then , lubing rifle brass is bad enough , can't imagine doing pistol brass uhhggg.....

Redding is still making and selling steel handgun dies,,want some?

 

[SSL]

Redding is still making and selling steel handgun dies,,want some?

LOL...not on your life! Bad enough handling and cleaning a few dozen greasy rifle cases, but I tend to load a couple hundred or more at a time when it comes to handgun cartridges. I don't miss those bad old days at all! Give me a clean case and less effort every time.

 

[Rsadams]

Redding is still making and selling steel handgun dies,,want some?

Lol , nope pirate I am good...

 

[ba_50]

Here is an update.
I was still having trouble after cleaning the chambers.
I loaded hundreds of .45 acp with no crimp and no chambering problems. Later I got a taper crimp die)
I assumed there shouldn't be a problem with. 38's and not crimping. Wrong. As many of you suggested, it needed the crimp to get the bell out. That is what happens when you don't keep an open mind.
This time each step was eliminated in a logical order. Didn't take long to figure it out this time around. Thanks again.