38-55 WCF reloading questions

[bobcat93]

I decided to change things up a bit. My new rifle is a Winchester 1885 highwall traditional hunter 38-55 WCF 1-15 twist barrel.
I'm gathering reloading components
So far I have the dies, brass, and CCI 200 primers., I have a slug kit to check out the barrel dia.
My question is what bullet type, and weight will work best with a 1 in 15 twist barrel with this cartridge.
I will be shooting out to 300 yrds for now, using smokeless powder, and cast bullets..
Any one with experience reloading this cartridge ?
Tips, suggestions please..
Thank you

 

[watercam]

I always stuck with the traditional 255 gr. flat or round nosed bullets. My brother tends to go heavier (300+ grs.) for BP Silhouette but do not know his twist rate. I had good results with Reloader 7 powder with no crimp as it is a single shot rifle.

 

[ireload2]

Since you are shooting a single shot you can use bullets that are longer, heavier and more pointy than permitted in a lever action.You will want a velocity of about 1100 FPS to about 1400FPS.
I would try 5744, SR4759 and IMR 4227 if you have any of these. SR4759 is probably the best but it was discontinued about 3 years ago. If you are going to shoot serious groups I would get a Postel or Creedmore profile bullet of about 300 to 320 grains. Since you can afford the nice Browning/Winchester rifle buy an equivalent quality mold from Steve Brooks or Buffalo arms for it. Buffalo Arms also sells some ready made bullets for you to play with before you have to get serious about a mold. https://www.buffaloarms.com/reloadi...t-bullet-20-1-alloy-spg-lube-box-of-50-379320
If your rifle has a chamber mouth of at least .398 or so you can use WW brass. If it is any smaller you may have to use the thin Starline cases. The WW cases are about .009 thick and the Starline are .0075 or so. With a groove dia plus .002 bullet you may not be able to chamber a WW case.

The 38-55 has about the worst variation in groove diameters across all the different rifles ever manufactured.
It was originally supposed to be a real .38 cal with a .379 to .380 groove diameter. But they have been manufactured at .375 up to about .383 groove diameters. The sorry SAAMI drawing permits the chamber to be about .394 maximum which means that some companies have manufactured rifles with small chambers and large bores that are not really compatible with shooting groove diameter or larger grease groove bullets.

You can check the bullet length vs barrel twist here and at several other sites.
http://www.geoffrey-kolbe.com/barrel_twist.htm
There was a Rifle or Handloader Magazine published about 8 to 10 years ago with a test of the Browning/Winchester .38-55 by Mike Venturino. I think the groove diam was .379 and he got really excellent accuracy from the test rifle with case bullets.

Finally go over and join the ASSRA (American Single Shot Rifle Association) Forums so you can ask questions there.
They have a lot of very experienced single shot rifle shooters there and the 38-55 is one of the top 4 or 5 calibers they shoot.

 

[bobcat93]

Since you are shooting a single shot you can use bullets that are longer, heavier and more pointy than permitted in a lever action.You will want a velocity of about 1100 FPS to about 1400FPS.
I would try 5744, SR4759 and IMR 4227 if you have any of these. SR4759 is probably the best but it was discontinued about 3 years ago. If you are going to shoot serious groups I would get a Postel or Creedmore profile bullet of about 300 to 320 grains. Since you can afford the nice Browning/Winchester rifle buy an equivalent quality mold from Steve Brooks or Buffalo arms for it. Buffalo Arms also sells some ready made bullets for you to play with before you have to get serious about a mold. https://www.buffaloarms.com/reloadi...t-bullet-20-1-alloy-spg-lube-box-of-50-379320
If your rifle has a chamber mouth of at least .398 or so you can use WW brass. If it is any smaller you may have to use the thin Starline cases. The WW cases are about .009 thick and the Starline are .0075 or so. With a groove dia plus .002 bullet you may not be able to chamber a WW case.

The 38-55 has about the worst variation in groove diameters across all the different rifles ever manufactured.
It was originally supposed to be a real .38 cal with a .379 to .380 groove diameter. But they have been manufactured at .375 up to about .383 groove diameters. The sorry SAAMI drawing permits the chamber to be about .394 maximum which means that some companies have manufactured rifles with small chambers and large bores that are not really compatible with shooting groove diameter or larger grease groove bullets.

You can check the bullet length vs barrel twist here and at several other sites.
http://www.geoffrey-kolbe.com/barrel_twist.htm
There was a Rifle or Handloader Magazine published about 8 to 10 years ago with a test of the Browning/Winchester .38-55 by Mike Venturino. I think the groove diam was .379 and he got really excellent accuracy from the test rifle with case bullets.

Finally go over and join the ASSRA (American Single Shot Rifle Association) Forums so you can ask questions there.
They have a lot of very experienced single shot rifle shooters there and the 38-55 is one of the top 4 or 5 calibers they shoot.

ireload2; thank you so much for all the info..that help out , and point me in the right direction..
I have never came across a cartridge like the 38-55..there doesn't seem to be ant straight forward information on the Winchester 1885 rifle, or the 38-55 wcf cartridge.. Everything is ..well...it could be...maybe try...my reloading book says this...my book says that..
Good Lord..haha..this one should keep me busy for a while

 

[Cochran]

In my 38-55 Traditional Hunter, I'm using a 255 grain RNFP bullet from S&S casting in .377 diameter. I haven't slugged it but read various forums and several guys said that the current manufactured Miroku rifles are consistantly .376

My load is 18.0 grains of IMR4227 in Starline long brass. Not crimped. No filler or wad.

I put a tang sight on it and getting groups between 2''-3'' at 100 yards. Just got a globe front put on it so hoping to get a bit smaller groups.

Jeff

 

[ireload2]

Bobcat
The primary information needed is the groove diameter of your rifle barrel so you can pick out a bullet that is .001 to .002 bigger. The other information needed is how big is the chamber at the case mouth. Then you will know if you have to use the thin Starline brass.
The 38-55 can be so weird that some shooters cannot chamber their ammo unless they FL size the loaded ammo slightly.
Once squeezed a little they can get the cast bullets chambered so they can shoot. That is definitely not best reloading practice.
Just remember it was a Ballard designed black powder single shot target round that Winchester hijacked for a the Model 94.

ireload2; thank you so much for all the info..that help out , and point me in the right direction..
I have never came across a cartridge like the 38-55..there doesn't seem to be ant straight forward information on the Winchester 1885 rifle, or the 38-55 wcf cartridge.. Everything is ..well...it could be...maybe try...my reloading book says this...my book says that..
Good Lord..haha..this one should keep me busy for a while

 

[bobcat93]

Bobcat
The primary information needed is the groove diameter of your rifle barrel so you can pick out a bullet that is .001 to .002 bigger. The other information needed is how big is the chamber at the case mouth. Then you will know if you have to use the thin Starline brass.
The 38-55 can be so weird that some shooters cannot chamber their ammo unless they FL size the loaded ammo slightly.
Once squeezed a little they can get the cast bullets chambered so they can shoot. That is definitely not best reloading practice.
Just remember it was a Ballard designed black powder single shot target round that Winchester hijacked for a the Model 94.

I seen this rifle and it was so beautiful I had to have it..plus Winchester only make 50 of them..so the cool factor convinced me to buy..

So that is what makes them such a goofy reloading cartridge? Because the 38-55 wasn't to be used with modern reloading components? .(smokeless powder, and jacketed bullets)
I purchased the new ( long) starline brass .. figured it was a safe purchase..as I could always trim it down ..
I was going to slug the barrel , and then slug the chamber throat and see just what I have..
I haven't found any one in the forums who has one of these rifles yet that I could talk to ..I did register over at the single shot forum I'm just waiting on verification so I can post..should help out alot ..( I hope)..
I didn't really want to cast my own bullet ..but I could..as I have the pot ..I was going to head to my gun club and mine a bucket or two of lead, cast it into ingots just in case I did end up casting for this rifle..as the 38-55 bullets are kind of expensive..it would save me money..I just find bullet casting extremely boring..haha..but love reloading...the other thing I was trying to find out is the bullet weight and barrel twist combination..are these ment for light bullet or heavy..200gr. or the 255gr and up..

 

[ireload2]

There are a number of guys that shoot these rifles at the Cast Boolits web site forums.
The 38-55 generally follows the same rules used for case bullets in other rifles except:
1. It is not a .375. It is closer to being a true .380. Just remember it started as a Ballard single shot round.
2. The chamber can be too small at the case mouth in some rifles. Don't assume it uses a specific bullet or case. Measure the chamber and the groove diameters.
You can buy bullets in the exact diameter that you need usually but they tend to be expensive and they do not shoot as well as your own case bullets will. The cast bullet peddlers will try to sell you hard cast bullets.

You will need a good expander die that is the same size as the bullets you use to about .001 smaller than the bullets.
For seating in a single shot you do not need much grip at the neck. A tight case mouth can damage the soft cast bullets.
Forget the hard cast bullet stories if you can. Your rifle will shoot better with soft bullets at about 1100 FPS to 1300 FPS.

I seen this rifle and it was so beautiful I had to have it..plus Winchester only make 50 of them..so the cool factor convinced me to buy..

So that is what makes them such a goofy reloading cartridge? Because the 38-55 wasn't to be used with modern reloading components? .(smokeless powder, and jacketed bullets)
I purchased the new ( long) starline brass .. figured it was a safe purchase..as I could always trim it down ..
I was going to slug the barrel , and then slug the chamber throat and see just what I have..
I haven't found any one in the forums who has one of these rifles yet that I could talk to ..I did register over at the single shot forum I'm just waiting on verification so I can post..should help out alot ..( I hope)..
I didn't really want to cast my own bullet ..but I could..as I have the pot ..I was going to head to my gun club and mine a bucket or two of lead, cast it into ingots just in case I did end up casting for this rifle..as the 38-55 bullets are kind of expensive..it would save me money..I just find bullet casting extremely boring..haha..but love reloading...the other thing I was trying to find out is the bullet weight and barrel twist combination..are these ment for light bullet or heavy..200gr. or the 255gr and up..

 

[Barlow]

Just a side note. When I was a kid back in the 60's, I Deer hunted with two old Kentucks that had identical Marlin 38-55's. They are beautiful rifles. They called them "Pumpkin Slingers". Barlow

 

[banjoguy]

I've got a Win1894 in 38-55. I shoot 255grs; the lyman mould and also an old Winchester load of similar design. I've had great results with 4895, SR4759, and Alliant 2400. I think also 3031. Pretty easy to load for, once you get the bore diameter figured out.

 

[COLT45SA]

I seen this rifle and it was so beautiful I had to have it..plus Winchester only make 50 of them..so the cool factor convinced me to buy..

So that is what makes them such a goofy reloading cartridge? Because the 38-55 wasn't to be used with modern reloading components? .(smokeless powder, and jacketed bullets)
I purchased the new ( long) starline brass .. figured it was a safe purchase..as I could always trim it down ..
I was going to slug the barrel , and then slug the chamber throat and see just what I have..
I haven't found any one in the forums who has one of these rifles yet that I could talk to ..I did register over at the single shot forum I'm just waiting on verification so I can post..should help out alot ..( I hope)..
I didn't really want to cast my own bullet ..but I could..as I have the pot ..I was going to head to my gun club and mine a bucket or two of lead, cast it into ingots just in case I did end up casting for this rifle..as the 38-55 bullets are kind of expensive..it would save me money..I just find bullet casting extremely boring..haha..but love reloading...the other thing I was trying to find out is the bullet weight and barrel twist combination..are these ment for light bullet or heavy..200gr. or the 255gr and up..

Well you just did find one. Crescent butt plate, stays cocked after closing breech, tang sight, what could be more beautiful~!
Haven't shot mine yet as I'm still gathering up reloading equipment for it. Did buy a box of loaded cartridges for the first shots. If this is anywhere near accurate as my Miroku built 1885 in .22LR, I'll be one happy camper~! My .22 looks the same except for the 1/2 round-1/2 octagon barrel and wears a Malcomb scope.

 

[COLT45SA]

I seen this rifle and it was so beautiful I had to have it..plus Winchester only make 50 of them..so the cool factor convinced me to buy..

So that is what makes them such a goofy reloading cartridge? Because the 38-55 wasn't to be used with modern reloading components? .(smokeless powder, and jacketed bullets)
I purchased the new ( long) starline brass .. figured it was a safe purchase..as I could always trim it down ..
I was going to slug the barrel , and then slug the chamber throat and see just what I have..
I haven't found any one in the forums who has one of these rifles yet that I could talk to ..I did register over at the single shot forum I'm just waiting on verification so I can post..should help out alot ..( I hope)..
I didn't really want to cast my own bullet ..but I could..as I have the pot ..I was going to head to my gun club and mine a bucket or two of lead, cast it into ingots just in case I did end up casting for this rifle..as the 38-55 bullets are kind of expensive..it would save me money..I just find bullet casting extremely boring..haha..but love reloading...the other thing I was trying to find out is the bullet weight and barrel twist combination..are these ment for light bullet or heavy..200gr. or the 255gr and up..

They only made 50 of them~! WOW, am I lucky or am I lucky. I wonder who those other 48 guys are.
Have you seen the videos on YouTube of those guys shooting their .38-55s at 600 and 800 yards at making hits~??

 

[COLT45SA]

I seen this rifle and it was so beautiful I had to have it..plus Winchester only make 50 of them..so the cool factor convinced me to buy..

So that is what makes them such a goofy reloading cartridge? Because the 38-55 wasn't to be used with modern reloading components? .(smokeless powder, and jacketed bullets)
I purchased the new ( long) starline brass .. figured it was a safe purchase..as I could always trim it down ..
I was going to slug the barrel , and then slug the chamber throat and see just what I have..
I haven't found any one in the forums who has one of these rifles yet that I could talk to ..I did register over at the single shot forum I'm just waiting on verification so I can post..should help out alot ..( I hope)..
I didn't really want to cast my own bullet ..but I could..as I have the pot ..I was going to head to my gun club and mine a bucket or two of lead, cast it into ingots just in case I did end up casting for this rifle..as the 38-55 bullets are kind of expensive..it would save me money..I just find bullet casting extremely boring..haha..but love reloading...the other thing I was trying to find out is the bullet weight and barrel twist combination..are these meant for light bullet or heavy..200gr. or the 255gr and up..

Looks like there are 3 of us here who own one. Now we need to find the other 47. When you find the magic combination, bullet weight, lead or jacketed, and powder combination, I would so,so, so appreciate sharing it with me.
Does yours have the case hardened colors on the receiver, lever, and hammer~!

 

[COLT45SA]

Looks like there are 3 of us here who own one. Now we need to find the other 47. When you find the magic combination, bullet weight, lead or jacketed, and powder combination, I would so,so, so appreciate sharing it with me.
Does yours have the case hardened colors on the receiver, lever, and hammer~!

Mine does have the case hardened colors, and if you do find that magic load I would so love it if you would share it with me.
I believe that the .38-55 and the .32-40 were the calibers of choice in competitive shooting~!!!

 

[lotech]

Since you are shooting a single shot you can use bullets that are longer, heavier and more pointy than permitted in a lever action.You will want a velocity of about 1100 FPS to about 1400FPS.
I would try 5744, SR4759 and IMR 4227 if you have any of these. SR4759 is probably the best but it was discontinued about 3 years ago. If you are going to shoot serious groups I would get a Postel or Creedmore profile bullet of about 300 to 320 grains. Since you can afford the nice Browning/Winchester rifle buy an equivalent quality mold from Steve Brooks or Buffalo arms for it. Buffalo Arms also sells some ready made bullets for you to play with before you have to get serious about a mold. https://www.buffaloarms.com/reloadi...t-bullet-20-1-alloy-spg-lube-box-of-50-379320
If your rifle has a chamber mouth of at least .398 or so you can use WW brass. If it is any smaller you may have to use the thin Starline cases. The WW cases are about .009 thick and the Starline are .0075 or so. With a groove dia plus .002 bullet you may not be able to chamber a WW case.

The 38-55 has about the worst variation in groove diameters across all the different rifles ever manufactured.
It was originally supposed to be a real .38 cal with a .379 to .380 groove diameter. But they have been manufactured at .375 up to about .383 groove diameters. The sorry SAAMI drawing permits the chamber to be about .394 maximum which means that some companies have manufactured rifles with small chambers and large bores that are not really compatible with shooting groove diameter or larger grease groove bullets.

You can check the bullet length vs barrel twist here and at several other sites.
http://www.geoffrey-kolbe.com/barrel_twist.htm
There was a Rifle or Handloader Magazine published about 8 to 10 years ago with a test of the Browning/Winchester .38-55 by Mike Venturino. I think the groove diam was .379 and he got really excellent accuracy from the test rifle with case bullets.

Finally go over and join the ASSRA (American Single Shot Rifle Association) Forums so you can ask questions there.
They have a lot of very experienced single shot rifle shooters there and the 38-55 is one of the top 4 or 5 calibers they shoot.

Unless you're speaking of an article I'm unaware of, I think the one you're referring to was In HANDLOADER #210 in 2001. It wasn't written by Mike Venturino. Lots of load data with several cast bullets and a variety of powders. The article has specs on bore and groove diameter, etc.

These are excellent cast bullet rifles and very accurate.

 

[JSH]

I had really good success using a Loverien type molds with a 375 WW and 38-55.
Paper patch is a good candidate here also.

 

[lotech]

Looks like there are 3 of us here who own one. Now we need to find the other 47. When you find the magic combination, bullet weight, lead or jacketed, and powder combination, I would so,so, so appreciate sharing it with me.
Does yours have the case hardened colors on the receiver, lever, and hammer~!

I bought a Traditional Hunter .38-55 soon after they were introduced about twenty-five or so years ago. I first saw one at the SHOT Show. Still have it and shoot it regularly. Where did the information come from that there were only fifty of these built? I'm pretty sure that's incorrect unless someone has some righteous substantiation.

 

[COLT45SA]

I bought a Traditional Hunter .38-55 soon after they were introduced about twenty-five or so years ago. I first saw one at the SHOT Show. Still have it and shoot it regularly. Where did the information come from that there were only fifty of these built? I'm pretty sure that's incorrect unless someone has some righteous substantiation.

I read that sometime back and just "bought it". Where the writer got that information I don't know and never bothered to ask. Duh~! Dumazz me~!

 

[Rook 6]

Good advice offered above here. Of course, check your case length, but generally the chambers tend to be long so don’t trim that long 38-55 brass until you know what you’re working with. My bet is that you won’t have to trim. It will typically shorten further as the straight wall case expands with first firing. Also a good call out about tight chamber necks. The good news is that Starline 38-55 brass has a notably thinner case neck wall thickness than any other offering. Without question you picked the best choice for brass. Starline can have better neck clearance in certain scenarios where Winchester won’t.