.357 Magnum, residue in case after firing
- Thread starter Loudcherokee
- Start date
GotRDid
Gold $$ Contributor
I was not very clear in my post, but I meant that you can lightly sand (1200 grit or finer) and polish your expander to reduce the amount that it stretches the case back out after sizing. You can still adjust the flare of the case mouth by screwing the die body in/out.
This group of cartridges has both variations in case length and case wall thickness. The RWS case on the right has very thin walls and you can see the profile of the seated bullet.
Note the finish on the expander insert.
Hope this clarifies my suggestion. As 243WinXB states, the expander should be .002" smaller than bullet diameter, and mine is just under .002" as best as I can measure. Bullet pull is more than adequate.
GotRDid.
I am tempted to test this, but i think NOT.
What??? This is Caveman Simple --- load development at its most basic. All of the variables are predetermined, except the amount of powder that can be burned inside a 4" barrel!!! Do it for Science and Prosperity. Its like 60 rounds loaded...Piece of cake. I suspect there will be a clear threshold where the velocity begins to change.
Alright let's try this a different way - start at 10.0gr of powder and load 6 rounds (1 cylinder's worth) and then increase powder charge by 0.5gr of power and load another 6... repeat and continue until you hit 15.0gr.
My reason for mentioning case length variations was in relation to the cannelure not lining up with the case mouth on each round. I suspect there are some differences in length which is why the seating depth changes. I'm not making any changes to the seating die between each round.
This is assuming the hornady xtp-FP bullets all have the same measurements to the cannelure.
LC
This is assuming the hornady xtp-FP bullets all have the same measurements to the cannelure.
LC
For a short barrel 357magnum,... Give the following powders a shot..
231
Longshot
HS-6
Hogdon's online data is spot on and safe at their listed MAX, as long as you use the same bullet at the same COAL.
231 is one of the cleanest burning powders out there. Will not get the same top velocities as others, but clean and accurate are it's traits.
I would even consider Titegroup if velocities are not a big concern. Titegroup cares not about case fill and powder in case placement and it's a very accurate powder and can burn very cleanly as well.
Longshot and HS-6 at max will get 100 fps more than 231 and titegroup....
The 296 your using is capable of another 100 fps more than longshot and hs-6... give or take.
231
Longshot
HS-6
Hogdon's online data is spot on and safe at their listed MAX, as long as you use the same bullet at the same COAL.
231 is one of the cleanest burning powders out there. Will not get the same top velocities as others, but clean and accurate are it's traits.
I would even consider Titegroup if velocities are not a big concern. Titegroup cares not about case fill and powder in case placement and it's a very accurate powder and can burn very cleanly as well.
Longshot and HS-6 at max will get 100 fps more than 231 and titegroup....
The 296 your using is capable of another 100 fps more than longshot and hs-6... give or take.
Copy and pasted from here https://www.hodgdonreloading.com/re...-barreled-rifle-require-different-reload-data
"The chamber dimension determines the pressure. So, the pressure is the same when fired in that chamber in a rifle or a handgun.
The barrel length has no impact on the chamber pressure and hence the reloading data (powder charge and pressure).
The length of the barrel will change the actual velocity you observe. In general as the barrel gets shorter than standard the velocity will lower, and as the barrel gets longer than standard the velocity will increase. This does not change the reload data (powder charge and pressure), just the velocity."
More at the Hodgdon link.
"The chamber dimension determines the pressure. So, the pressure is the same when fired in that chamber in a rifle or a handgun.
The barrel length has no impact on the chamber pressure and hence the reloading data (powder charge and pressure).
The length of the barrel will change the actual velocity you observe. In general as the barrel gets shorter than standard the velocity will lower, and as the barrel gets longer than standard the velocity will increase. This does not change the reload data (powder charge and pressure), just the velocity."
More at the Hodgdon link.
Last edited:
When I did a load study for shooting IDPA using a S&W 686 (4" barrel), I determined that .38 Special was the better case size. For my purposes I didn't need to max out velocity and I would struggle to burn a full case of powder lone enough the extra case capacity of a 357 Magnum case. I tested W231, TiteGroup, Bulleye, TrailBoss, Clays, CFE Pistol. Keep in mind that my goal was accuracy and serviceability at a preset velocity (750fps). I needed the gun to stay relatively clean so that I could shoot a 200 - 300 round match without the pistol or chamber getting gummed up and impairing the speed loading and ejection of the cylinder rapidly and multiple times during a stage. I didn't want to be cleaning a gun during a match... so Unique Powder and majority of shotgun type powders were immediately disqualified
Cleanest to Dirtiest: Trail Boss (winner), Bullseye & TiteGroup (very close 2nd & 3rd), CFE Pistol, W231 2nd dirtiest, and Clays was the worst (all shotgun powders are dirty).
Recoil least to worst: Trail Boss was noticeably milder then all. Bulleye and TiteGroup were both more snappy, and TiteGroup also had a tendency to nose flip. The others were somewhere in the middle.
Case Fill to achieve the same target velocity: Trail Boss (+60%... clear winner). Both Bulleye and Titegroup had the least amount of case fill of approximately 20%...huge risk of double or triple charge.
No one gives Case Fill enough credence. The lesson was hammered into me a few year ago while RSO an IDPA practice in which one of our expert shooters detonated his 44 Mag. This really changed my philosophy on larger classic cartridges that were originally designed around either black powder or early powders that had larger volume and lower explosive energy. I started paying more attention to case fill as a safety measure and reloading requirement especially when using modern powders that are very fast burning. What I learned during my load development process is that you can't see a 20% case fill unless you hover directly over the case and look down into it. This potential issue becomes greater when loading on a progressive press. If you have a hiccup during your rotation then just pay a lot of attention to make certain you don't double charge a case when you reset the shell holder after fixing the issue.
Cleanest to Dirtiest: Trail Boss (winner), Bullseye & TiteGroup (very close 2nd & 3rd), CFE Pistol, W231 2nd dirtiest, and Clays was the worst (all shotgun powders are dirty).
Recoil least to worst: Trail Boss was noticeably milder then all. Bulleye and TiteGroup were both more snappy, and TiteGroup also had a tendency to nose flip. The others were somewhere in the middle.
Case Fill to achieve the same target velocity: Trail Boss (+60%... clear winner). Both Bulleye and Titegroup had the least amount of case fill of approximately 20%...huge risk of double or triple charge.
No one gives Case Fill enough credence. The lesson was hammered into me a few year ago while RSO an IDPA practice in which one of our expert shooters detonated his 44 Mag. This really changed my philosophy on larger classic cartridges that were originally designed around either black powder or early powders that had larger volume and lower explosive energy. I started paying more attention to case fill as a safety measure and reloading requirement especially when using modern powders that are very fast burning. What I learned during my load development process is that you can't see a 20% case fill unless you hover directly over the case and look down into it. This potential issue becomes greater when loading on a progressive press. If you have a hiccup during your rotation then just pay a lot of attention to make certain you don't double charge a case when you reset the shell holder after fixing the issue.
When I did a load study for shooting IDPA using a S&W 686 (4" barrel), I determined that .38 Special was the better case size. For my purposes I didn't need to max out velocity and I would struggle to burn a full case of powder lone enough the extra case capacity of a 357 Magnum case. I tested W231, TiteGroup, Bulleye, TrailBoss, Clays, CFE Pistol. Keep in mind that my goal was accuracy and serviceability at a preset velocity (750fps). I needed the gun to stay relatively clean so that I could shoot a 200 - 300 round match without the pistol or chamber getting gummed up and impairing the speed loading and ejection of the cylinder rapidly and multiple times during a stage. I didn't want to be cleaning a gun during a match... so Unique Powder and majority of shotgun type powders were immediately disqualified
Cleanest to Dirtiest: Trail Boss (winner), Bullseye & TiteGroup (very close 2nd & 3rd), CFE Pistol, W231 2nd dirtiest, and Clays was the worst (all shotgun powders are dirty).
Recoil least to worst: Trail Boss was noticeably milder then all. Bulleye and TiteGroup were both more snappy, and TiteGroup also had a tendency to nose flip. The others were somewhere in the middle.
Case Fill to achieve the same target velocity: Trail Boss (+60%... clear winner). Both Bulleye and Titegroup had the least amount of case fill of approximately 20%...huge risk of double or triple charge.
No one gives Case Fill enough credence. The lesson was hammered into me a few year ago while RSO an IDPA practice in which one of our expert shooters detonated his 44 Mag. This really changed my philosophy on larger classic cartridges that were originally designed around either black powder or early powders that had larger volume and lower explosive energy. I started paying more attention to case fill as a safety measure and reloading requirement especially when using modern powders that are very fast burning. What I learned during my load development process is that you can't see a 20% case fill unless you hover directly over the case and look down into it. This potential issue becomes greater when loading on a progressive press. If you have a hiccup during your rotation then just pay a lot of attention to make certain you don't double charge a case when you reset the shell holder after fixing the issue.
I don't get the impression the OP wants to download his 357mag down to 38spl let alone 38spl velocities that barely get the bullet out the muzzle.
It's a good warning about the double charges. Personally when load for pistols on the xl650 I have a tendency to look into each case as it goes by the powder check station to make sure the powder level is where it should be, even if the powder check die does it for me. I have the press mounted at a level that gives me the best view into the case. I have to admit it took some getting used to look inside each case... but now it's a habit.
I don't think the OP can achieve 357 Mag velocities out of 4" barrel. At best maybe something more in the 38 Special velocity range.
My powder puff load kills paper, but definitely not for self defense or hunting. I think Bullseye powder or a Vithavuori (powdered unicorn horn) is best chance to max velocity, but case fill will be extremely low especially in 357 case. W231 would be better compromise with improved case fill.
Something to consider - to improve case fill and decrease chance of flashover the OP could take advantage of the shorter case length of 38 Special brass.
My powder puff load kills paper, but definitely not for self defense or hunting. I think Bullseye powder or a Vithavuori (powdered unicorn horn) is best chance to max velocity, but case fill will be extremely low especially in 357 case. W231 would be better compromise with improved case fill.
Something to consider - to improve case fill and decrease chance of flashover the OP could take advantage of the shorter case length of 38 Special brass.
I do have some 231 I use for 45ACP and also a ton of 38spl cases, but my goal was to load for .357 mag.
I dont carry the gun, and hardly ever shoot it. Being a lefty makes revolver carrying tedious. It's more of a nostalgia piece that I got because it's a copy of the first handgun I ever shot when I was a kid, my dads Ruger GP100.
I do want to shoot it more often, because I like it for target shooting. I dont care to load for .38spl due to the carbon ring buildup in the cylinders.
I'll have to check the velocities with my Chrony next time I load up some rounds.
LC
I dont carry the gun, and hardly ever shoot it. Being a lefty makes revolver carrying tedious. It's more of a nostalgia piece that I got because it's a copy of the first handgun I ever shot when I was a kid, my dads Ruger GP100.
I do want to shoot it more often, because I like it for target shooting. I dont care to load for .38spl due to the carbon ring buildup in the cylinders.
I'll have to check the velocities with my Chrony next time I load up some rounds.
LC
JSH
Gold $$ Contributor
After having shot a pound or two of 296/110 in 357’s with zero issues for years, I will disagree with a fair bit of what has been posted.
The GP100 will stand a bunch of abuse, way more than any S&W, which most 357 loads are geared for.
To the OP, pm me if you want to discuss further.
First thing, run it over the chrono, it is your friend.
A max load is just not a pressure thing. If you put more powder in and no decent FPS gain, your at your max, just wasting powder when it’s unburnt, has nothing to do with barrel length.
Folks bang the drum on 158’s, I dislike them and look at heavies in at least 170-180 range. Go to the heavies and a good crimp and you will make use of the powder.
My FA 357 burns large amounts of H110/296, rifle primers and 200+ grain lead bullets.
N’uff said.
The GP100 will stand a bunch of abuse, way more than any S&W, which most 357 loads are geared for.
To the OP, pm me if you want to discuss further.
First thing, run it over the chrono, it is your friend.
A max load is just not a pressure thing. If you put more powder in and no decent FPS gain, your at your max, just wasting powder when it’s unburnt, has nothing to do with barrel length.
Folks bang the drum on 158’s, I dislike them and look at heavies in at least 170-180 range. Go to the heavies and a good crimp and you will make use of the powder.
My FA 357 burns large amounts of H110/296, rifle primers and 200+ grain lead bullets.
N’uff said.
I had one of those and it never produced the crimp I was looking to get. I got an RCBS seat/crimp die, removed the seating stem and use it as a dedicated roll crimp die. By keeping an eye on case length and making slight adjustments to the crimp depending on the bullet I'm using. I use plus+ or minus- .001" from recommended trim to lengths, and my crimps are consistent from shell to shell. For jacketed bullets a crimp consistent enough to grip in the cannelure is dependent on case length. For hard cast lead a bullet with a deep crimp groove, case length is a little more forgiving. For plated bullets with no cannelure or crimp groove, I use a taper crimp die. Some kind of a crimp is needed even if it's little more that just to remove the belling at the case mouth. Most powders work at their best at or close to the maximum charge weights, by that I mean they burn their cleanest and some powders are position sensitive also.
Upgrades & Donations
This Forum's expenses are primarily paid by member contributions. You can upgrade your Forum membership in seconds. Gold and Silver members get unlimited FREE classifieds for one year. Gold members can upload custom avatars.
Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.
You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.
To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.
Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.
You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.
To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.