357 loads in 38 cases.

[AJC]

So i have a bunch of 38 spl cases and 5 guns that will shoot 38/357 rounds. The biggest interest in this would be for my lever action rifles. So the first question would be with longer bullets like the cast 180 grain bullet can i just seat it out at 357 length. This seems like a no problem thing. The second question is the case pressure limits different and will the 38 cases handle the same loads. Figured i would ask before blowing my face off .

 

[spencerhenry]

Why not just use 357 brass?

 

[Link]

My concern would be more like getting a big load in a small gun. I just buy the brass I need, Its cheaper than Dr bills.
have fun.

 

[watercam]

I think you hit the problem on the head with case strength issue. The other issue is the usual one associated with shooting .38s in a .357 chamber - build up of carbon between the case mouth and chamber end. Not a problem, just clean. Start low and work high and see what the cases tell you. That said, .357 cases are not that expensive.

 

[Hoser]

I sectioned a 357 case many years ago and compared it to a 38 Special case. Zero difference in that flavor of brass.

After that I didnt mind loading up some 38Special +P+ ammo. But I never got around to loading it to 357 levels because I ran out of room in the case for powder.

The cylinder walls are the weak link in revolvers.

 

[rr2030]

Why chance the remote possibility of one of those over pressure 38's finding its way into a standard 38 ? As they say schmit happens.

 

[AJC]

Why chance the remote possibility of one of those over pressure 38's finding its way into a standard 38 ? As they say schmit happens.

I don't own a standard 38 so that is not an issue at all. I can see it being any more of an issue than cases that have been reformed into other calibers, as almost every wildcat is. I have a pile of 38 cases and using them seems like a good thing vise just storing them and buying new. I have read about this before and the carbon issue would be no different than shooting 38's.

 

[joshb]

I agree with rr2030. Say you load it up, it “works”, and you load up a bunch of it. Next year, your buddy wants to shoot his new old 38 and you grab the wrong box of ammo! There’s a reason for those longer cases!

 

[Twicepop]

I saw some .38 Special load data that was reprinted from something that Elmer Keith once put out. It rivaled anything that is currently available in the .357 Magnum. There is a a load that was pioneered by Skeeter Skelton that used .38 Special cases, 2400 powder and the Lyman 155 grain gas check cast bullet (358156). This bullet has two crimp grooves, and it is crimped in the lower groove. I'll do some digging for the info and add it later today.

 

[AJC]

I sectioned a 357 case many years ago and compared it to a 38 Special case. Zero difference in that flavor of brass.

After that I didnt mind loading up some 38Special +P+ ammo. But I never got around to loading it to 357 levels because I ran out of room in the case for powder.

The cylinder walls are the weak link in revolvers.

I don't intend on hunting for max power or speed. I plan on loading GC cast bullets or powder coated lead so i was most interested in the length portion. It would be nice if i ended at 200 yards with enough energy to knock down the rams, which with the heavier bullet should not take as much speed.

 

[riflewoman]

Bad idea for two reasons...

First, loading long will very likely put the bullet where there is no crimp groove at the mouth of the case. With a heavy load like a 357 Mag level load you WILL get bullets walking forward out of the case. Crimping with a taper crimp or crimping in a grease groove won’t work. You need a roll crimp and with heavy loads a heavy roll crimp.

Second, even with the bullets seated long pressures will be higher that what the case MAY be capable of withstanding. 38 Special “+P” ammo has a SAAMI pressure limit of about 21000 psi whereas 357 Magnum has a pressure limit if 35000 psi. The +P case might hold up to the higher pressure, it you cannot count on it. Even if they look the same there may be differences you cannot see.

So load 357 level ammo in 357 cases. Much cheaper than losing a hand or even a fine revolver.

 

[AJC]

Second, even with the bullets seated long pressures will be higher that what the case MAY be capable of withstanding. 38 Special “+P” ammo has a SAAMI pressure limit of about 21000 psi whereas 357 Magnum has a pressure limit if 35000 psi. The +P case might hold up to the higher pressure, it you cannot count on it. Even if they look the same there may be differences you cannot see.

So load 357 level ammo in 357 cases. Much cheaper than losing a hand or even a fine revolver.

Is this a case or chamber issue. If you are shooting in a 357 chamber that is rated for the pressure i would think it would be good. The case is a good question but due to cost i believe that the cases are identical with the exception of the length. This is a factory production cost issue where making them different would cost the producer more. I have not measured or know this as a fact which is why i ask. All my weapons are 357 chambered so if the case is the same this will be a non-issue. If there is data or a caution note somewhere that indicates the case web is thinner or is a safety concern i am very interested in that information. Im not defending it as a good idea but i am looking for data to support the idea one way or another.
I was taught that the idea is the same as 22s 22l and 22lr but that may be misinformation.

 

[JimT]

So i have a bunch of 38 spl cases and 5 guns that will shoot 38/357 rounds. The biggest interest in this would be for my lever action rifles. So the first question would be with longer bullets like the cast 180 grain bullet can i just seat it out at 357 length. This seems like a no problem thing. The second question is the case pressure limits different and will the 38 cases handle the same loads. Figured i would ask before blowing my face off .

This article by Skeeter Skelton might answer your question.

Pay particular attention to the two paragraphs directly above his load data charts.

http://www.darkcanyon.net/MyFriend_The357.htm

 

[lb-ft]

A trick with 357 maximum, when dedicated, proper headstamp brass is unavailable, is to get very close to 357 max levels by using 357 mag brass and seating bullets to 357 max length. Sure, they hang outside the case mouth, but many of the better bullets have multiple crimp groves which can be utilized for applications like this.

 

[Lone Hunter]

Is this a case or chamber issue. If you are shooting in a 357 chamber that is rated for the pressure i would think it would be good. The case is a good question but due to cost i believe that the cases are identical with the exception of the length. This is a factory production cost issue where making them different would cost the producer more. I have not measured or know this as a fact which is why i ask. All my weapons are 357 chambered so if the case is the same this will be a non-issue. If there is data or a caution note somewhere that indicates the case web is thinner or is a safety concern i am very interested in that information. Im not defending it as a good idea but i am looking for data to support the idea one way or another.
I was taught that the idea is the same as 22s 22l and 22lr but that may be misinformation.

Sure .38's will shoot out of a .357. I think what everyone is trying to warn you about is the .38 case is not rated for .357 pressure. You seem hell bent on doing it so go for it. I don't see risking a nice rifle or revolver for the cost of brass. Good Luck to you.

 

[corning]

So i have a bunch of 38 spl cases and 5 guns that will shoot 38/357 rounds. The biggest interest in this would be for my lever action rifles. So the first question would be with longer bullets like the cast 180 grain bullet can i just seat it out at 357 length. This seems like a no problem thing. The second question is the case pressure limits different and will the 38 cases handle the same loads. Figured i would ask before blowing my face off .

This sounds like an accident waiting to happen. Don't be overly frugal. Sell the .38's and buy .357 brass.

 

[JimT]

I saw some .38 Special load data that was reprinted from something that Elmer Keith once put out. It rivaled anything that is currently available in the .357 Magnum. There is a a load that was pioneered by Skeeter Skelton that used .38 Special cases, 2400 powder and the Lyman 155 grain gas check cast bullet (358156). This bullet has two crimp grooves, and it is crimped in the lower groove. I'll do some digging for the info and add it later today.

13.5 grains of 2400.

 

[riflewoman]

Is this a case or chamber issue. If you are shooting in a 357 chamber that is rated for the pressure i would think it would be good. The case is a good question but due to cost i believe that the cases are identical with the exception of the length. This is a factory production cost issue where making them different would cost the producer more. I have not measured or know this as a fact which is why i ask. All my weapons are 357 chambered so if the case is the same this will be a non-issue. If there is data or a caution note somewhere that indicates the case web is thinner or is a safety concern i am very interested in that information. Im not defending it as a good idea but i am looking for data to support the idea one way or another.
I was taught that the idea is the same as 22s 22l and 22lr but that may be misinformation.

It is a case issue. The 38 case is only required to hold 21000. The 357 case is required to hold 35000. The 38 cases MIGHT hold 35000 but since they are not required to do so the manufacturer may change his process or tools making them unsafe at 35000. If the case goes it is very likely that the gun will be damaged beyond repair. You might even be damaged beyond repair as a gas jet can remove fingers! Please also note that Skeeter’s loads exceed those published by Hercules in 1987. So even his medium loads are hot for +P levels. http://www.castpics.net/LoadData/Freebies/RM/Alliant/Hercules_1987.pdf

 

[rammac]

Personally I don't think that it's a very good idea and I really don't understand why you'd even bother, but hey, give it a try and post some pictures if something really cool happens - I like seeing people break their expensive stuff and suffer injury due to bad decisions.

 

[K22]

Bad idea - if you decide to use 38 case seat the bullet to the crimp groove of the bullet then crimp.

The Speer Manual No. 13 contains a number of 38+P loads which provide more velocity and energy than standard 38 loads if that is your goal. Also some brands of brass will split sooner loading to +P pressures. I've found that Winchester 38 and Starline cases hold up well with +P loads. Do not shoot +P loads unless your revolver is rated for 38+P loads. Of course +P loads can be shot out of a 357 magnum revolver / rifle without damage to the firearm.

If you want magnum performance then get some 357 magnum cases.

Like you, I have an lot of 38 cases. I've been loading mine to 38+P pressure levels and shooting out of a 357 Magnum revolver with excellent accuracy. For this purpose I like the 125 grain Hornady XTP bullet with 231 Powder and Federal 100 primers. Very accurate and decent terminal performance. Also recoil is mild compared to full 357 magnum power charges and 158 grain bullets.