.338 Accuracy?
- Thread starter Terry
- Start date
This sounds like a fun conversation, i'll keep an eye on this one.
They can win if it gets windy. I have seen a few shoot decent over the years. It seems they always want to throw a shot or two. One year my buddy shot 10 all black targets at Williamsport. That is about an impossible feat. Not too many have ever done that. That was a 338 Lapua IMP. Now this was a 100 pound gun with a brake. Aluminum stock with a barrel block. it was a 1.450 diameter, 36 inch long barrel glued in the block. Matt
The question is Why? I am a nobody in the shooting world. I have been at it for about 20 years. Shoot a hybrid match in Alabama at one of the most difficult ranges there is to read from 600-1000 yards. No sighters, no wind flags and no BR equipment, If you are not on target in the 1st (5) rounds, you are D'Qed. Have won many matches with the 6BR, 6XC, and 6 Dasher......its simply Not needed at 1000 yards. No need for the extra expense of the powder, bullets and brass. Yes, I have a .338 Lapua and have made hits to 2160 yards with it. Its an amazing round....just not for BR... IMHO!
Ed
Ed
I belive you are correct but two years ago in our banquet match (late October) it was cold and windy. Only two all blue and single digit targets. Now this 10 shot groups at 1000 yard BR. One was a 338 Lapua and the other was my 338 Lapa IMP. Most days they can't compete but there are days they will dominate. My 338 Lapa IMP will shoot 4 to 5 inch 5 shot groups at 1000. It will usually shoot around 7 inch 10 shot groups. Matt
Terry shoots BR and a heavy gun can go 100 pounds or more and allowed a brake. It tends to settle the recoil a bit. The only time they will win is if it is really bad conditions. At 600 I don't know if they would win much there. Matt
Kurz
Silver $$ Contributor
And just for the sake of discussion...
I think that there has been an extreme influence from the press regarding the hype extended to this caliber, especially the .338 Lapua cartridge. It has been portrayed as the end all of highly accurate, long range battlefield cartridges. This cry has been embraced by other branches of the military, world governments and now nearly every gunmaker attempting to glom onto an extremely lucrative military manufacturing contract.
We, as accuracy-minded longer range target shooters, have been absorbed into this mindset of battlefield accuracy instead of examining the facts which govern the ability of the cartridge, the rifle system and the shooter to render small (but multi-shot) groups at long range. The points that detract from the cartridge are as noted above; heavy recoil, lack of ability to use muzzle brakes by rule, limited to heavy gun categories, and last, inability to resolve small groups of five or more shots.
There is no doubt that the Lapua cartridge fielded with the heaviest 300 grain VLDs will exhibit the least amount of drift at 1,000 yards. Or will it?
When compared to the .284 Win. (Shehane), another staple of the long range shooters, loaded with the 195 grain Hybrid, there is little if any real world difference in either drop or drift. If we step up to the 7mm-300 WSM as suggested, the 7mm wins hands down and with less recoil, less heat and an easier potential to create a small group over the course of the competition.
In essence, it may exhibit great battlefield accuracy of 1 or 2 shots but when subjected to competitions consisting of 5 or more shots for group, it routinely falls into a more average performance. Personally though, I enjoy wheeling out the big gun occasionally to make lots of noise while I stretch my abilities on targets further than 1,000 yards. But I will always fall back to the Dasher, BRX, XC or other small but highly accurate cartridge when it comes to competitions.
Let the bashing begin...
Regards.
I have seen the Lapua exhibit less wind drift. My buddy shot 10 all back targets at Williamsport with one. Now these are 10 shot groups at 1000 yards in a 10 match agg.. I am pretty sure this is the only person in the history of the club to do this. Williamsport winds are and can be really tough. Just ask anybody that shot there. Yes it is not the accuracy of others and would be a poor choice for 600 or 1000 yards most times. It does have its place.
As far as your 284, 284 Shehane or 7-300 WSM they don't cut it in 1000 yard BR. They just don't shoot small enough to win regularly. I have seen plenty of them show up over the years and none won. The only 7mm I ever saw win regularly was a 7 SAUM.
At Williamsport our game is pretty dominated by 300 WSM or 6 Dasher. Those two have won every aggregate since about 2008 or before. I also believe they set every record in both aggregate and score there. I also believe that at Montana they have won almost all the aggregates and set the records there.
Matt
Kurz
Silver $$ Contributor
Respectfully, let's take another run at it...
Well, that pretty much answers that question now doesn't it? It was a one time event. Never to be repeated. A unique occurrence.
"If we step up to the 7mm-300 WSM as suggested, the 7mm wins hands down and with less recoil, less heat and an easier potential to create a small group over the course of the competition."
This statement was with regard to drop and drift as in the statement above this one, not winning or losing. I also used the term 'potential' for that exact reason, too many variables to take into account for such a short set of statements.
When folks make the statement that the 6PPC is the winningest cartridge ever, they use the same grounds. If the only cartridge fielded is the 6PPC then only the 6PPC will always win. It will always be the winningest cartridge since no one shoots any other cartridge. If the vast majority of cartridges fielded at Williamsport are the 300 WSM and the 6 Dasher then those two will dominate the winners category. It does not mean that some other cartridge can't win but rather that those were the cartridges fielded so only they would win. Many shooters jump on the bandwagon when one or two cartridges start to dominate a particular type of event because they think that's the only way they will win. Sort of a reverse NASCAR if you will, the field is leveled by cartridge/bullet choice and it becomes a matter of the driver making the difference.
Regards.
Well, that pretty much answers that question now doesn't it? It was a one time event. Never to be repeated. A unique occurrence.
"If we step up to the 7mm-300 WSM as suggested, the 7mm wins hands down and with less recoil, less heat and an easier potential to create a small group over the course of the competition."
This statement was with regard to drop and drift as in the statement above this one, not winning or losing. I also used the term 'potential' for that exact reason, too many variables to take into account for such a short set of statements.
When folks make the statement that the 6PPC is the winningest cartridge ever, they use the same grounds. If the only cartridge fielded is the 6PPC then only the 6PPC will always win. It will always be the winningest cartridge since no one shoots any other cartridge. If the vast majority of cartridges fielded at Williamsport are the 300 WSM and the 6 Dasher then those two will dominate the winners category. It does not mean that some other cartridge can't win but rather that those were the cartridges fielded so only they would win. Many shooters jump on the bandwagon when one or two cartridges start to dominate a particular type of event because they think that's the only way they will win. Sort of a reverse NASCAR if you will, the field is leveled by cartridge/bullet choice and it becomes a matter of the driver making the difference.
Regards.
The reason nobody else has done it is because it is that hard. If you shoot 5 or 6 all blue targets in a season, you are lucky. I am talking in excess of 200 targets a match and done for 48 years so that was a lot of chances for somebody else to do it.
I was the first to shoot a Dasher and one of the first few to shoot a 300 WSM. It started winning right away. At that time there were mostly 6.5-284 and 308 Baers.You have to realize we have up to 90 light guns and 70 heavy guns shoot every other week. I get to see a good sampling of what is available.
There are lots of other guns show up from time to time. We get a few 6x47 and 6.5x47 show up. Occasionally a 6BR. This one guy (a pretty good shooter) was intent on making a 7WSM shoot. He spent the better part of three years, both classes and probably 6 different barrels. One day he asked what he had to do to win and I told him switch to a 300 WSM. He got a reamer like mine and went right to winning. He said it was just so much easier to get to shoot. This is just one example of the many that tried.
In our game you need to be able to put 10 shots in the 4 to 5 inch range on a good day. if you can't do it, you shoot once and go home. No money for finishing second in a relay. You also don't get in the shootout for the money. No Nightforce scope for finishing second in the 10 match aggregates either.
I have seen lots of the other guns show up and they just can't compete. I am talking literally dozens of the various 6.5's and 7 mm's. It is a different game in 1000 yard BR. I wouldn't shoot a 300 WSM in 600 yards either. Too much recoil and probably not quite up to the accuracy of the 6mm at that yardage.
I am not saying the 338 is a choice for 1000 yard BR but it has its day. I agree with a lot of what you are saying. Matt
Really.......Need?
NEED?
WTH does "need" have to do with it. I mean , really, your trusty 22 rimfire can punch holes at 1k all day long. Why the need for Dashers, BRX's, 6.5-284's 300 WSM'S...etc?
I'll tell you why. As my kids said when they were 3 years old....."because....that's why"!!
Tod
rap36case
Working up loads for new Shilen 308win
I shoot both 308win and 6.5 creedmoor at 1000 yards. The outback precision range outside of Fort Worth provides for 2400yard shots. The 338 is used at the longer ranges. There are many variables in long range shooting, the rifle and equipment, the marksman, the ammunition, the environment just to name a few. If you like to punch paper at distance, it can be fun. I find the 6.5 creedmoor to be more fun due to low recoil. An Omega 30 suppressor with muzzel brake also helps. I am also learning to be a gunsmith in Tishomingo. I love to learn and I love to shoot.
I have a 338 Edge that has one purpose. Its on my bucket list to hit a 24"x24" target at 1770yds. Once I have done that the barrel will be sold along with the dies and bullets to another shooter that wants to (scratch an itch). The idea of shooting a 60rnd match with this load is ot my idea of fun but others may see it as a challange.
perry42
perry42
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