33-28 Nosler (w/Pics)

[INTJ]

Here is a pic of the rifle. I thought I had posted it on this thread.



As you can see it's not a long range rig.

 

[Ledd Slinger]

Striving to get 1/4 MOA with this "carry" elk gun is a waste. Anything less that 3/4 MOA does not increase its utility out to 600 yds, which is the extreme limit for this rifle.

It's not that I am not in to accuracy. I am not done tuning if my LR BR rifles won't shoot .18 MOA or better 5-shot groups at 200 yds. They must be at that level to shoot under an inch at 600 and under 3" at 1000 yds when conditions are good.

Now a long range elk rifle in say 338 Edge, 1/4 MOA 3-shot 100 yd groups is worth pursuing. I found that relatively easy to get with the last one, which I sold. I will soon build and chamber another one, though I am thinking of using 265 grain LRABs, 285 ELDs, Sierra 300s, or Berger 300s.

For me it's all about the application of the rifle and logically allocating my shooting and loading time, of which LR BR takes a lot of.......

I didnt have to "strive". I regularly find 1/4 MOA accuracy with all different sizes and calibers of Berger bullets in all my hunting rifles. And I'm not talking 100 yard groups. I'm talking 1.5" groups at 600 yards.
Most rifles have 3-4 loads that shoot well under 1/2 MOA. Anything over 1/2 MOA is no good to me in a hunting rifle because I know how consistently well I get all Berger bullets to shoot. With other bullets I have to "strive" and spend a lot more time at the range to find great accuracy so I dont mess with them anymore. Accuracy comes much easier for me with Berger. Terminal performance on game is much better too. I've been killing elk, deer, antelope, and bear with Berger since 2006.

 

[INTJ]

I didnt have to "strive". I regularly find 1/4 MOA accuracy with all different sizes and calibers of Berger bullets in all my hunting rifles. And I'm not talking 100 yard groups. I'm talking 1.5" groups at 600 yards.
Most rifles have 3-4 loads that shoot well under 1/2 MOA. Anything over 1/2 MOA is no good to me in a hunting rifle because I know how consistently well I get all Berger bullets to shoot. With other bullets I have to "strive" and spend a lot more time at the range to find great accuracy so I dont mess with them anymore. Accuracy comes much easier for me with Berger. Terminal performance on game is much better too. I've been killing elk, deer, antelope, and bear with Berger since 2006.

I guess we all have different priorities.

I too used to prioritize precision above all else in my hunting rifles in an effort to make them shoot like target rifles, regardless of the bullets terminal performance. I moved past that long ago for a "carry around" hunting rifle that won't be used past 600 yds. Picking accuracy over terminal performance is a poor choice for such a rifle.

I am not really impressed with sub 1/2 MOA hunting rifles shooting accuracy type bullets. I was able to get that decades ago. I am more impressed by consistent sub 3/4 MOA groups using controlled expansion bullets.

Why? I have had accuracy type bullets fail on game from both failure to expand and failure to penetrate. I have never had a controlled expansion bullet do anything but work very well. I realize that Berger has somewhat closed that gap with their hunting bullets, but they still won't do what a good controlled expansion bullet will do.

Then again, the Sierra Gameking also is designed with the idea of high accuracy still having good terminal performance. The Gamekings actual field results are all over the place, not just in my own experience but in decades of experience from many many others. Berger hunting bullets may be a little better, it they are nowhere nearly as capable as a good controlled expansion bullet.

Yes, over the years I have become an unapologetic controlled expansion bullet snob for a carry hunting rifle. I am not as opposed to a 300 gain Berger or Matchking in a long range hunting rifle out of an Edge or a Lapua variant, as even if they fail to expand they are big enough to do damage and even if they lose half their weight they will still penetrate.

I do use Berger's in my LR BR rifles though Berger's require a lot of sorting to get them to group together. I prefer custom bullets like Bart's which are much more consistent.

That said, I did shoot a .975" 5-shot group at 600 yds in a match with sorted Berger 108s last year so I know they will shoot, but they do require a lot more sorting. As a comparison, on a tuning day before a 1000 yd match last year I shot three consecutive sub 2" 3-shot groups with Bart's. The average was 1.84".

So for me, my standard in a carry rifle remains 3/4 MOA from a premium controlled expansion bullet. That excludes Berger's and Sierras, and my load development is done with the 33-28 for this season.

We all march to a different drummer.............

 

[Ledd Slinger]

I guess we all have different priorities.

I too used to prioritize precision above all else in my hunting rifles in an effort to make them shoot like target rifles, regardless of the bullets terminal performance. I moved past that long ago for a "carry around" hunting rifle that won't be used past 600 yds. Picking accuracy over terminal performance is a poor choice for such a rifle.

I am not really impressed with sub 1/2 MOA hunting rifles shooting accuracy type bullets. I was able to get that decades ago. I am more impressed by consistent sub 3/4 MOA groups using controlled expansion bullets.

Why? I have had accuracy type bullets fail on game from both failure to expand and failure to penetrate. I have never had a controlled expansion bullet do anything but work very well. I realize that Berger has somewhat closed that gap with their hunting bullets, but they still won't do what a good controlled expansion bullet will do.

Then again, the Sierra Gameking also is designed with the idea of high accuracy still having good terminal performance. The Gamekings actual field results are all over the place, not just in my own experience but in decades of experience from many many others. Berger hunting bullets may be a little better, it they are nowhere nearly as capable as a good controlled expansion bullet.

Yes, over the years I have become an unapologetic controlled expansion bullet snob for a carry hunting rifle. I am not as opposed to a 300 gain Berger or Matchking in a long range hunting rifle out of an Edge or a Lapua variant, as even if they fail to expand they are big enough to do damage and even if they lose half their weight they will still penetrate.

I do use Berger's in my LR BR rifles though Berger's require a lot of sorting to get them to group together. I prefer custom bullets like Bart's which are much more consistent.

That said, I did shoot a .975" 5-shot group at 600 yds in a match with sorted Berger 108s last year so I know they will shoot, but they do require a lot more sorting. As a comparison, on a tuning day before a 1000 yd match last year I shot three consecutive sub 2" 3-shot groups with Bart's. The average was 1.84".

So for me, my standard in a carry rifle remains 3/4 MOA from a premium controlled expansion bullet. That excludes Berger's and Sierras, and my load development is done with the 33-28 for this season.

We all march to a different drummer.............

You dont know what you're missing on terminal performance. Weight retention is a joke unless you're hunting large dangerous game in africa.

I used Partitions, Accubonds, and Swift Scirroco II for years prior to Berger. Started using Berger for hunting 13 years ago and after personally witnessing the superior terminal performance on so many different game animals using 6.5 cal, 30 cal, and 338 cal, I won't use anything else. I could tell you endless stories of perfect performance with amazing penetration, devastating vital damage, and minimal meat damage, but I dont have the time.

Accuracy is king in hunting. If you cant make a perfect shot, you run the risk of losing an animal no matter what bullet you're using. But to each his own I guess.

 

[INTJ]

You've obviously never used Berger to shoot an animal then... You dont know what you're missing on terminal performance. Weight retention is a joke unless you're hunting large dangerous game in africa.

I used Partitions, Accubonds, and Swift Scirroco II for years prior to Berger. Started using Berger for hunting 13 years ago and after personally witnessing the superior terminal performance on so many different game animals using 6.5 cal, 30 cal, and 338 cal, I won't use anything else. I could tell you endless stories of perfect performance with amazing penetration, devastating vital damage, and minimal meat damage, but I dont have the time.

Accuracy is king in hunting. If you cant make a perfect shot, you run the risk of losing an animal no matter what bullet you're using. But to each his own I guess.

My experience is the exact opposite of yours. Thats probably what we have to exact opposite view. When I used the kind of bullets you like I had erratic performance. When I switched to premium controlled expansion hunting bullets, I had just as many DRTs but never an issue with failing to expand or failing to penetrate.

Weight retention is a very good indicator of the penetration ability of a fully expanded bullet. I have seen this repeatedly. The Barnes TTSX is superior to most bullets in the combination of reliable expansion, deep penetration, and clean kills. And yes, while I am happy when they shoot under 3/4 MOA, they often shoot tighter. I just don't attach any significance to groups under 3/4 MOA in this type of hunting rifle.

Accuracy not the most important thing in hunting. Shot placement is the most important factor, and whether a load is 1/4 MOA or 1 MOA will have zero bearing in shot placement in field conditions unless it is a true long range shot.

This 33-28, as most of the rifles I build, are designed to be carried in the field and will be shot from field rests or offhand at ranges inside 600 yds. I have never faced a field situation where a 1/4 MOA rifle was any advantage. I have been in MANY field situations where the ability to quickly shoot offhand on a moving animal was important, and having a bullet that will penetrate lengthwise or corner to corner makes the difference between a clean kill and and not taking the shot.

I am just not going to mess around with bullets that aren't designed for the toughest shooting situation I'll likely see.

 

[Ledd Slinger]

My experience is the exact opposite of yours. Thats probably what we have to exact opposite view. When I used the kind of bullets you like I had erratic performance. When I switched to premium controlled expansion hunting bullets, I had just as many DRTs but never an issue with failing to expand or failing to penetrate.

Weight retention is a very good indicator of the penetration ability of a fully expanded bullet. I have seen this repeatedly. The Barnes TTSX is superior to most bullets in the combination of reliable expansion, deep penetration, and clean kills. And yes, while I am happy when they shoot under 3/4 MOA, they often shoot tighter. I just don't attach any significance to groups under 3/4 MOA in this type of hunting rifle.

Accuracy not the most important thing in hunting. Shot placement is the most important factor, and whether a load is 1/4 MOA or 1 MOA will have zero bearing in shot placement in field conditions unless it is a true long range shot.

This 33-28, as most of the rifles I build, are designed to be carried in the field and will be shot from field rests or offhand at ranges inside 600 yds. I have never faced a field situation where a 1/4 MOA rifle was any advantage. I have been in MANY field situations where the ability to quickly shoot offhand on a moving animal was important, and having a bullet that will penetrate lengthwise or corner to corner makes the difference between a clean kill and and not taking the shot.

I am just not going to mess around with bullets that aren't designed for the toughest shooting situation I'll likely see.

Berger bullets are not the same as whatever other "accuracy" target bullets you've used in the past. And accuracy is King because it allows you to place your shots in th correct spot more accurately. I thought that was self explanatory.

If you ever get the chance to shoot an animal with the Berger 250gr or 300gr from your 338-28 Nos, you'll most likely change your view.

The last bull elk I killed with the Berger 250gr was quartering hard towards me at 311 yards. I punched it right thru dead center of the lower shoulder leg bone right wher it turns into the shoulder scapula. Not a shot I would have taken with a smaller rifle or different bullet, but it was all I had before I lost caught of him and I know the capabilities of m 250gr Bergers in the 338-375R so I didnt hesitate. Turned his vitals into gelatin and kept goin thru to tear up his liver and intestines. The front leg bone was completely severed in half with an entrance wound about the size of a tennis ball. Didn't ruin the shoulder meat around the entrance either. Phenomenal penetration on one of the most difficult shot angles you can take on a bull elk and absolutely devastating terminal damage following the penetration. If that's not good enough, then I dont know what is.

Had similar shots with accubonds where the bullet would just explode on impact. Swift scirocco II is one of the best penetrating bullets I've ever seen, but the internal damage is pretty disappointing after entrance. Penciled a bear and bull elk with the Swifts where internal damage was about as minimal as could be, then quit using them. Nosler Partitions and Remington CorLokts are great all around hunting bullets, but not the best for long range energy retention and accuracy. Berger has it all when it comes to 33 cal hunting bullets. Penetration will never be an issue and they will outshoot anything Barnes could ever offer, all while costing half the price. Hornady is the least consistent bullets I have ever weighed and measured so I dont even consider them.

 

[INTJ]

Berger bullets are not the same as whatever other "accuracy" target bullets you've used in the past. And accuracy is King because it allows you to place your shots in th correct spot more accurately. I thought that was self explanatory.

If you ever get the chance to shoot an animal with the Berger 250gr or 300gr from your 338-28 Nos, you'll most likely change your view.

The last bull elk I killed with the Berger 250gr was quartering hard towards me at 311 yards. I punched it right thru dead center of the lower shoulder leg bone right wher it turns into the shoulder scapula. Not a shot I would have taken with a smaller rifle or different bullet, but it was all I had before I lost caught of him and I know the capabilities of m 250gr Bergers in the 338-375R so I didnt hesitate. Turned his vitals into gelatin and kept goin thru to tear up his liver and intestines. The front leg bone was completely severed in half with an entrance wound about the size of a tennis ball. Didn't ruin the shoulder meat around the entrance either. Phenomenal penetration on one of the most difficult shot angles you can take on a bull elk and absolutely devastating terminal damage following the penetration. If that's not good enough, then I dont know what is.

Had similar shots with accubonds where the bullet would just explode on impact. Swift scirocco II is one of the best penetrating bullets I've ever seen, but the internal damage is pretty disappointing after entrance. Penciled a bear and bull elk with the Swifts where internal damage was about as minimal as could be, then quit using them. Nosler Partitions and Remington CorLokts are great all around hunting bullets, but not the best for long range energy retention and accuracy. Berger has it all when it comes to 33 cal hunting bullets. Penetration will never be an issue and they will outshoot anything Barnes could ever offer, all while costing half the price. Hornady is the least consistent bullets I have ever weighed and measured so I dont even consider them.

The Bergers on on the list for my Edge since a TTSX is not a great choice for past 600 yds. I do think TTSXs are a superior choice inside that distance.

I have taken cleanly deer and hogs from 60 yds to 435 with them. I'll get a chance to use these 225s on an elk in Sep from this gun, and I expect the usual boring reliability I get with them.

 

[AZ BR FAN]

Maybe try a muzzle brake on your Winchester it help me a lot

 

[INTJ]

Maybe try a muzzle brake on your Winchester it help me a lot

I only use brakes on competition rifles and LR huntings rifle since a braked rifle should never be fired without ear plugs. This is a walk around rifle. Also, I am not having any accuracy issues shooting it. I am also highly suspicious that 89 grains is a max load.

 

[Ledd Slinger]

The Bergers on on the list for my Edge since a TTSX is not a great choice for past 600 yds. I do think TTSXs are a superior choice inside that distance.

I have taken cleanly deer and hogs from 60 yds to 435 with them. I'll get a chance to use these 225s on an elk in Sep from this gun, and I expect the usual boring reliability I get with them.

Keep us posted on how she performs in the field. Big 33's are amazing performers on game when that big ol chunk of lead hits home

 

[INTJ]

Keep us posted on how she performs in the field. Big 33's are amazing performers on game when that big ol chunk of lead hits home

Will do! I think that in our bullet debate that's something that neither of is mentioned. Big 33s perform well with many if not most bullets. I have heard of big 33s out-penetrating 375s on Cape Buffalo.

 

[Ledd Slinger]

Will do! I think that in our bullet debate that's something that neither of is mentioned. Big 33s perform well with many if not most bullets. I have heard of big 33s out-penetrating 375s on Cape Buffalo.

Yeah they are extremely effective. Opens the door for tougher shot angles you can confidently take that you might not consider with a smaller round.

 

[Hammer101st]

Will do! I think that in our bullet debate that's something that neither of is mentioned. Big 33s perform well with many if not most bullets. I have heard of big 33s out-penetrating 375s on Cape Buffalo.

How do you think the 33-28 would perform with 250's and 300's compared to the 338 edge with the same pill's

 

[Alex Wheeler]

I think this 338-28 is a good idea for a midrange elk gun. So often we go to the heaviest bullet with best bc which is not needed for 600 and in. The recoil difference between a 250 and 300 grain bullet is huge. I have considered a 338 rum running 225 accubonds many times for a timber gun that could still take a 500 yd shot.

 

[Ledd Slinger]

How do you think the 33-28 would perform with 250's and 300's compared to the 338 edge with the same pill's

The elk wouldn’t know the difference.

Although the Ultramag and 338 Lapua cases are fairly inefficient older designs, I think we need to remember the listed velocity numbers for the standard 338 Lapua magnum have always been more than adequate for long rang elk hunting.

I’m sure the 33-28 will achieve the same listed velocities for the 338 Lapua quite easily. Probably be running pretty close with the 338 Edge or standard 338 RUM, yet doing it in a smaller more efficient package. You just don’t need all that extra case capacity until you move up to 300gr bullets where big charges of slower powders get them moving better.

Here’s velocities with a 250gr bullet for the 338 Lapua Magnum straight out of my 2021 Hodgdon manual for reference. Tho to be fair, their test barrel length was only 24”. Most people run around 28” on a 338 Lapua Mag

 

[Hammer101st]

The elk wouldn’t know the difference.

Although the Ultramag and 338 Lapua cases are fairly inefficient older designs, I think we need to remember the listed velocity numbers for the standard 338 Lapua magnum have always been more than adequate for long rang elk hunting.

I’m sure the 33-28 will achieve the same listed velocities for the 338 Lapua quite easily. Probably be running pretty close with the 338 Edge or standard 338 RUM, yet doing it in a smaller more efficient package. You just don’t need all that extra case capacity until you move up to 300gr bullets where big charges of slower powders get them moving better.

Here’s velocities with a 250gr bullet for the 338 Lapua Magnum straight out of my 2021 Hodgdon manual for reference. Tho to be fair, their test barrel length was only 24”. Most people run around 28” on a 338 Lapua Mag

View attachment 1271431

If a 33-28 would match them velocitys i think it to be a no brainer to build one. It would just be a fun gun for me.

 

[Ledd Slinger]

If a 33-28 would match them velocitys i think it to be a no brainer to build one. It would just be a fun gun for me.

I’m sure the 33-28 will easily do it. My 338-375 Ruger is an even smaller case yet and easily pushes the Berger 250gr past any of the Hodgdon listed max speeds for the 338 Lapua.

Still working on some tuning since I changed to ADG brass in the 338-375R, but it’s no problem hitting 2930 fps on the 250gr with H4350. Will go faster with other powders.

Now of course a person can improve the 338 Lapua case and there’s nothing a 338-375 Ruger or a 33-28 Nosler could ever do to match those speeds, but they are not far off from the standard 338 Lapua when using the 250gr bullets

 

[Hammer101st]

I’m sure the 33-28 will easily do it. My 338-375 Ruger is an even smaller case yet and easily pushes the Berger 250gr past any of the Hodgdon listed max speeds for the 338 Lapua.

Still working on some tuning since I changed to ADG brass in the 338-375R, but it’s no problem hitting 2930 fps on the 250gr with H4350. Will go faster with other powders.

Now of course a person can improve the 338 Lapua case and there’s nothing a 338-375 Ruger or a 33-28 Nosler could ever do to match those speeds, but they are not far off from the standard 338 Lapua when using the 250gr bullets

Your right i think the lapua would benefit from a improved version get rid of some of that body taper maybe that would bring the bolt thrust numbers down and a person could put it in a normal action and not worry about puttin the bolt through your skawl

 

[INTJ]

It's interesting this thread came back up. I didn't get to ek hunt last year and may not this year either. However, I have slightly changed directions with the 33-28. Given my new job is load development I have been able to see the latest trends, and one of them is a 9-10 lb rifle capable of 1000+ yd shots on elk. My 33-28 can certainly fit that trend.

So I took off the VX-3i 4.5-14 and mounted a Sightron 6-24x50. I have ordered a clamp on brake. I won't have my lathe back up for a few months yet, but even so, my barrel is only .650 at the muzzle and I don't want to thread it for 9/16." If I had made this decision earlier I would have got a fluted #5 bs a non-fluted #4.

I am going to fully sort the 265 ABLRs I have and give them a try. If they will shoot in this barrel I will have a budget-friendly, long range, portable, elk rig able to take elk at 1000+ yds. If I can get 2800 fps, it's about 24 MOA to 1000 yds and remaining velocity is about 1870 fps.

If the 265 ABLRs won't shoot, I have lots of options in bullets from 250-265 grains, like @Ned Ludd and @Alex Wheeler have mentioned. I still like controlled expansion bullets, but some of the cup and core Bergers and Hornadys seem to do very well.

I have learned that my 33-28 has about the same case capacity as a 338 Norma. For comparison, the 33-28 holds 103 grains of water, the 338 Norma 105.5, the 338 Lapua 114.3, and the 338 Edge 115.5.

 

[Ledd Slinger]

I went lightweight with my 338-375R for a while. Fitted an AG Composites 24 oz CAT 700 carbon fiber stock to lighten the load on the shoulder. It definitely made it nicer to pack but when pushing big bullets that fast it just wasn’t comfortable to shoot even with a brake. I tried many different brakes but none could quite tame it all the way and my accuracy suffered. Finally I put a heavier stock back on and fitted yet another brake. The new stock is about 2.5 lbs heavier than the AG stock and the new brake is a little more effective. Although there is more weight on my shoulder when hiking, now it’s a joy to shoot and the benefits of increased accuracy were immediately apparent on paper when testing loads at 871 yards

I know the trend is to go lightweight with these large magnums right now. I fell for it myself. Also went that route with my 300 Norma Mag Improved (carbon stock, carbon barrel, titanium brake, etc). But im convinced now that the big magnums do need some extra weight to shoot really good regardless of having a brake or not. Especially the big 33’s