30br brass experiment... mixing lots

[P1ZombieKiller]

I often get asked, Can I add 50 pcs of 30br brass to my rotation so I can shoot all day with preloaded ammo? While my answer to them is "yes, but keep them separated".... I wanted to do another experiment, and this time document it. I want to have 20ish pcs of brass from 4-5 different lots.

I am asking some of you guys to sell me 3-5 pieces of "NEW LAPUA 6 BR BRASS" that I will then turn into 30br brass, fireform, and then shoot groups of 5. The brass will be all mixed up, and I want to see if it actually does make a difference on paper. I am sure others have done this before (and if you have please chime in with what your results were), but it's off season, and I have almost tagged out deer hunting, and I need something to do.

My current lot of brass is: P00687401 / 1231813

If you can sell me 3-5 pieces, please post here, and list your lot# so that I don't get 2-3 people selling me the same lot#. I will gladly send you the money for the brass plus shipping. Send me a PM with your address, and I will get funds headed your way.

I will document my steps here on this thread so anyone can keep track of the results.

 

[newbieshooter]

I often get asked, Can I add 50 pcs of 30br brass to my rotation so I can shoot all day with preloaded ammo? While my answer to them is "yes, but keep them separated".... I wanted to do another experiment, and this time document it. I want to have 20ish pcs of brass from 4-5 different lots.

I am asking some of you guys to sell me 3-5 pieces of "NEW LAPUA 6 BR BRASS" that I will then turn into 30br brass, fireform, and then shoot groups of 5. The brass will be all mixed up, and I want to see if it actually does make a difference on paper. I am sure others have done this before 9and if you have please chime in woth what your results were), but it's off season, and I have almost tagged out deer hunting, and I need something to do.

My current lot of brass is: P00687401 / 1231813

If you can sell me 3-5 pieces, please post here, and list your lot# so that I don't get 2-3 people selling me the same lot#. I will gladly send you the money for the brass plus shipping. Send me a PM with your address, and I will get funds headed your way.

I will document my steps here on this thread so anyone can keep track of the results.

PM me info and I'll send you a few pieces (n/c). Lot P00902302 / 0140216

 

[P1ZombieKiller]

Thank you.... PM sent.

 

[hoz53]

I often get asked, Can I add 50 pcs of 30br brass to my rotation so I can shoot all day with preloaded ammo? While my answer to them is "yes, but keep them separated".... I wanted to do another experiment, and this time document it. I want to have 20ish pcs of brass from 4-5 different lots.

I am asking some of you guys to sell me 3-5 pieces of "NEW LAPUA 6 BR BRASS" that I will then turn into 30br brass, fireform, and then shoot groups of 5. The brass will be all mixed up, and I want to see if it actually does make a difference on paper. I am sure others have done this before 9and if you have please chime in woth what your results were), but it's off season, and I have almost tagged out deer hunting, and I need something to do.

My current lot of brass is: P00687401 / 1231813

If you can sell me 3-5 pieces, please post here, and list your lot# so that I don't get 2-3 people selling me the same lot#. I will gladly send you the money for the brass plus shipping. Send me a PM with your address, and I will get funds headed your way.

I will document my steps here on this thread so anyone can keep track of the results.

i can send you some. pm me your address. i will check my lot# later tonite and get back to you. How do you plan to mark them or arent you going to?

 

[P1ZombieKiller]

I am not going to mark them... that's the whole idea.... I guess it's possible I get 2-3 of the same lot in the group of 5 that I shoot. But the probability of getting all 5 of the same lot is next to impossible.

When I turn them, I will put them all in the SS tumbler to rinse of the mandrel lube. This will also ensure that I can not tell 1 from the other.

PM sent to HOZ53

 

[hoz53]

I am not going to mark them... that's the whole idea.... I guess it's possible I get 2-3 of the same lot in the group of 5 that I shoot. But the probability of getting all 5 of the same lot is next to impossible.

When I turn them, I will put them all in the SS tumbler to rinse of the mandrel lube. This will also ensure that I can not tell 1 from the other.

PM sent to HOZ53

I see okay ought to be interesting

 

[P1ZombieKiller]

I am still looking for 1-2 more people to sell me 3-5 pieces of NEW Lapua 6br brass.
I have these lots in hand:
568501
687401
0902302

I have these lots being sent:
687403

 

[Shynloco]

Zombie...PM sent.

Alex

 

[P1ZombieKiller]

Update:

I have 28 pieces of brass of brand new Lapua 6br brass from 6 different lots. Thank you to the following shooter that all donated this brass to me for this experiment.
newbieshooter 902302
HOZ53 568501
P1ZombieKiller 687401
dogdude 687403
shynloco 687402
dbaird 568502

I will prep them tonight. I will neck them up, cut the necks, trim to length (since I have a short chamber), tumble them in SS media, and then chamfer them. Tomorrow I will load them with my standard load I use in my rifle. I am going to the range this weekend and I will fire form them on a singe target with 25 bulls (using the extra 3 as barrel warmers and not taking record of them). Then bring them home clean and reload them.

At that point, they should all be fire formed, and I can start my experiment. I plan on then shooting 5 groups of 5 on a single target for comparisons. Since my barrel likes 2 warm up shots, I will use the extra 3 (as well as 7 of my multi fired loaded rounds) as barrel warmers before the 5 "test" shots. I will post here as fire forming and after the group test.

If I missed a step that could compromise this test, please let me know so I can incorporate that into the process.

This is the target I will be using for fireforming.

 

[Malcolm C.]

If you have the capability, I'd be interested in knowing the run out associated with the groups. Though knowing that could bias your test.

 

[RGRobinett]

I will follow with interest - using a 30BR chambered Bartlein 1:18" barrel, for both the 2016 and 2017 NBRSA Score (VfS) Nationals, I did something, "that'll never work" . . . but will withhold the details until later.RG

 

[Sniper338]

tag

 

[Shynloco]

Wes,
Funny thing, I've just finished prepping an additional 20 more casings (different lot than I've been shooting) for fireforming in the morning in anticipation of receiving and testing bullets from Randy R, Bart S and R Cheeks. Question, are you turning the necks at all? I've turned all mine to .0850.

Alex

 

[P1ZombieKiller]

Wes,
Funny thing, I've just finished prepping an additional 20 more casings (different lot than I've been shooting) for fireforming in the morning in anticipation of receiving and testing bullets from Randy R, Bart S and R Cheeks. Question, are you turning the necks at all? I've turned all mine to .0850.

Alex

Yes. I turn my necks to .0096" and because I have a shorter chamber, I have to trim to 1.515". I will prep this brass the same exact way I have my reg lot of brass that I shoot in this barrel. The target above will be shot with my normal load. Remember this target will be shot with new brass to fire form only..... I will then conduct a group test with the same mixed but fired brass. I'm not a group shooter, so don't expect groups in the 0's.... but I just want to see the effects of what is perceived as taboo in our sport. The more I shoot, the more I realize that not everything you hear is the gospel truth. But because a "BIG WIG" tells us to do it, the sheep follow. The good thing about being a small local shooter is that I get to listen a lot..... then I can decide what is right for me.

Also... thank you for donating 5 pieces of brass to this experiment. I appreciate it.

 

[P1ZombieKiller]

I went to the range yesterday since I had a few extra hours. I fire formed the 28 cases and recorded 25 of those shots here. I had a second target I used as sighters to warm the barrel only. I did not use to check wind. Basically I shot 2 shots to warm barrel, and then came to this target to shoot record shots. I started bottom left, and worked my way up starting from left to right on each row. I should have spaced the series better, but only had 2 hours to set up, and tear down since it gets dark so early now.

1st series was 11 record shots, 2nd series was 8 records shots, and then the last series was 6 shots. Barrel was clean when shooting started. Wind was slight into my face. Point of aim was just outside 10 ring at about the 7 o'clock position. Basically opposite side of the 1st shot placed (bottom left moth ball). I roughly counted 16 X's. I am prepping the brass tonight in my normal way I do (FL size/deprime/bump), prime, charge, seat bullet.

I'm not sure I will get to go back out this weekend to do the 2nd round of testing, but will report back with those findings when I do. I may take another one of these targets and shoot it instead of groups as this was REALLY nice and easy/clean to do on a range setting that I don't have complete control over because we have other shooters on the benches.

 

[P1ZombieKiller]

Update.... I did this test 12/2 and forgot to post the results.

I took the 28 fireformed cases and loaded them all with the load I use in my rifle (116 P1ZK bullets pushed by 34.2 grains of H4198, Wolf SRM primer, @ 2.336 OAL). On a cold barrel, my rifle likes 2 shots before it starts grooving. The first shot on a cold barrel is usually always a full bullet high. I took 25 pieces of the test load and set them in groups of 5. I took the other 3 cases, and set them aside by them self. I shot a warm up group at the center sighter dot to find the point of aim for this day. I used the extra 3 test loads with several of my match loads. I didn't record the temp when starting, and looking back I should have. If I remember correctly, it was a nice morning, with very slight winds coming in the 7:00 position, and blowing in the 2:00 position.

Once I had found the point of aim, I let the barrel cool off (I didn't record the exact time, but I usually wait 10-15 minutes in between groups... that's just the way I normally do things).

The brass was all mixed up, and once again I want to thank these folks for donating the brass to this experiment.
newbieshooter 902302
HOZ53 568501
P1ZombieKiller 687401
dogdude 687403
shynloco 687402
dbaird 568502


Once testing began, I would shoot the first 2 shots before the group was started with my loads (loaded to the same specs as the test loads) at the sighter target, and then move to the record targets. I am not a group shooter, so my style of shooting is to wait for the wind condition to be what my test shots were, and hold in the same spot to "slide" the bullet into the "X" where I wanted the group to be based at. As you can see the groups varied a lot. Target #3 was very impressive for a shooter of my caliber. It was nice and tight, with the others leaving something to be desired.

I am not saying that if all the brass would have been the same lot, that I would not have had 1 great group, and 4 not so great. however I do truly believe that those "not so great groups" may have been slightly better. Or it could have just been unlucky.... With only 1 single test, I don't think I there is enough data to come to an absolute answer. But it was fun doing it.

Thanks for all those that followed this, and I'm sorry I didn't post this right after I did the test.