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30BR and the 'jam/seat' method

AlNyhus

Silver $$ Contributor
When I got home Sunday evening from the NBRSA tournament in Webster City, a new bullet point die and punch was waiting for me. I had a couple thousand cored jackets ready to go, soTuesday morning I set the die up and made up some test bullets.
gh0jbE9l.jpg


Tuesday was blustery but I had a hunch things would lay down a bit by around 7:00 pm. With everything set up and while I was waiting for 'Happy Hour' to begin, I thought it would be interesting to run this little test. I always start with the bullets seated relative to the T.P. (touch point). Using the stripped bolt or Wheeler method, I simply find the T.P. (touch point) for each style of bullet I'm going to use, record the length of the Wilson seating stem accordingly and jot it down on a adhesive label that goes on the seater box. That way, if I change bullets it's stupid simple to refer to the T.P. on the box and adjust the stem length.

For these 30's, the seater stem length I use for starting load work is .020-.030 longer than the T.P. In other words, the seating stem is shorter than the stem length for the T.P. A good baseline is .030 because it's proven over the years to be a solid starting point.

The rt. group was my starting load with the seater stem at the T.P. (1.800"). The left group is with the seater stem .030 shorter than the T.P. (1.770). Again, there was no change to the load whatsoever...other than the seating adjustment.
LQQkKK1l.jpg


There's still a bit of vertical in the left group but that came around by moving the powder charge up. It started to get happy around 34.5 and hung in there all the way to 35.1. The winds were from the 11 o'clock to 1 o'clock which at out range (S.E. facing) always shows a skosh of vertical in the groups even when you're hitting the flags pretty well.
ereeaEKl.jpg


Anyway, that's a proven method used by quite a few 30BR tuners.
- Seater stem .030 shorter than the T.P. (stripped bolt/Wheeler method)
- Neck bushing .004 smaller than the necks measure over the pressure ring of a seated bullet
- Starting lower, adjust the powder charge up until it shoots small. Then keep going until it shoots vertical again. Then keep going until it shoots small again. You'll find two and sometimes three nodes.

You may not finalize on these seater stem lengths or neck bushing sizes. Using this method you have only one way to go with the seater stem length and bushing size. You'd be surprised by how many keep these a constant and simply go win tournaments. ;)

For what it's worth...... -Al
 
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Great post Al.

Follow up questions. Do you chase the lands with your loads and, if so, how many rounds in between redetermining the touch point. Thanks.
 
Follow up questions. Do you chase the lands with your loads and, if so, how many rounds in between redetermining the touch point. Thanks.
Kyle, that's the beauty of this method. Since it's really a 'jam seat' situation, there's a big sweet spot. I'll check the T.P. occasionally but throughout the useful life of a 30BR barrel, the seating stem might only get adjusted once or twice.

Randy Robinett, who taught me this method years ago, calls it the 'Rama-lama-jama' method. :cool:
 
AL, are you shooting 3 or 5 shot groups while here.


- Starting lower, adjust the powder charge up until it shoots small. Then keep going until it shoots vertical again. Then keep going until it shoots small again. You'll find two and sometimes three nodes.
 
Just to be clear, these are 30 into the lands?

The terminology threw me off but if it’s a jam seat I can imagine that they’re jumped.

Great shooting.
 
Just to be clear, these are 30 into the lands?
Yes that is what I get. In the picture of the target it's clearly marked T.P. -.030, Stem 1.770. A shorter stem will make for a longer OAL i.e. deeper seat into the lands.
In other words, the seating stem is shorter than the stem length for the T.P. A good baseline is .030 because it's proven over the years to be a solid starting point.

The rt. group was my starting load with the seater stem at the T.P. (1.800"). The left group is with the seater stem .030 shorter than the T.P. (1.770). Again, there was no change to the load whatsoever...other than the seating adjustment.
 
Great post. How do you measure your seater stem depth? Are you just using the number on the die at touch?
I use a standard Wilson seating cap and stem. Once the bullet is at the T.P., you just measure the overall length of the seater cap assy from the top of the cap to the bottom of the stem and record this as your T.P stem length. You could also just set the stem length to the T.P. and use some Skip Otto shims to back the cap assy up.

If you change seating stems, make sure and recheck the T.P. figures. The bevel in the bottom of the stems can vary quite a bit.
 
Good stuff Al and good shooting. That 5 shot group certainly repeated the three shot groups. Thank you for passing on the knowledge.

I also keep track of stem length, but do it differently using a Sinclair/Wilson micrometer top seater. I record the micrometer number for each bullet, then play from there. With the number recorded, it’s easy to dial right back to it when needed.
 
Seater stem at the T.P. (touch point):
yhxDBcnh.jpg


Seater stem .030 shorter than the T.P. (the bullet is .030 further forward than the T.P.):
tm9dou0h.jpg


You can also just leave the seater stem at the T.P. and use these. Shim per your whim ;)
CrVQMoah.jpg


Good shootin' -Al
Uhmm. Where is the display on the calipar?:cool:

Thanks for posting. Most anyone with basic understanding should be able to follow this post and get their 30br in tune, or very close to tune, in short order.
 
Thanks Al, learning this after I acquired micrometer tops for most of my seaters and trying to record measurements in my notes and keep up with the zero in the center of the scale has been a lost cause... John
 

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