30br 1:14 26'' Krieger BULLET/ LOAD RECOMMENDATIONS PLEASE

[BOLTED]

Rifle gets here next week! It's a used S&S Precision Savage 12, trued and blued. Only 50 rounds down the pipe, so it's almost brand new. 30br is a new one to me.

Can anyone give me some good ideas to start with for this gun? I have been reading A LOT about the 30br, but I still have not found any solid info for the 1:14. Odd twist I guess?

Bullets, weight range, and manufacturer suggestions would be great, as well as powder and or load data. A couple of ideas to start me in the right direction is what I'm after.

There is quite a bit of good info on this site and others, and I like doing the homework, I just think that maybe someone out there could help me get a little more specific to my particular situation. That in turn, would help me get more satisfying time behind the trigger, so thanks in advance to anyone willing to share some of their knowledge with me.

Dave

Yes, I also posted this in the "Big Stuff" category on kind of an accident. Oops.

 

[tiny68]

Most shooters have chosen to use a 1:17 or 1:18 twist to match 110-118 gr 7-10 ogive bullets. I had a 1:16 twist 30BR as my first score barrel. I would suggest trying 125 or 135 Bergers if you can find them. I am not really aware of a custom bullet in this range. The 125 Speer TNT shoot amazing well for a low cost bullet. H4198 is the go to powder for the lighter bullets. However I quickly ran into pressure issues with the 135 gr bullets and wrecked some brass. I had a little luck with N135 but didn't explore it greatly. I acquired a 1:17 twist barrel and never looked back.

Luck in your search, Tim

 

[GSPV]

One option would be to ignore that it's a 1:14 and use the mid-teen 1.00 jacket bullets and the rest of the formula that most of us shoot with the 30 BR.

If you opt for the heavier bullets, you might try a somewhat slower powder like LT-32. You have trouble over-pressuring with the mid-teens and H4198. Not true with the heavier bullets.

If it was me and the freebore let me do it, I'd go the "treat it like a 1:17" route. At least for a while.

If you do, the basic formula with the 112-118 pills is:
1. Lapua brass necked up, turned to allow 1.5 thou clearance per side and length trimmed to 1.500". FL die adjusted for 1.5-3.0 thou shoulder bump.
2. CCI BR4 primer
3. 34-35 grains of H4198. Initially try for about 2970 FPS.
4. 4 or 5 thou neck tension
5. Mid-teen bullet seated for 20-30 thou jam

Note: Pay close attention to your neck turning to make sure that you cut into the shoulder enough to mitigate donut issues.

Also: The usual caveats apply. Start low and work up.

 

[RGRobinett]

To compliment Greg J's. info, these powders are all useful: H-322(Extreme); BenchMark; RL-7; N-130; LT-32; IMR-8208 . . . probably others in this burn rate vicinity, which I have not tried. Again, H-4198 seems to have risen to be the most popular - it almost always works. ;D

The H-322 and BenchMark are especially good with heavier bullets - weight North of 130 Gr. With BR quality bullets, the 14" twist will not substantially degrade precision. Good shootin'! RG

 

[GSPV]

Randy is the man. He has forgotten more about this than I will ever know.

I was attempting to keep things simple for the OP.

I'd add Norma 200 to the list, too.

I forgot to mention shoulder bump. Your FL die needs to be set for 1.5-3.0 thou bump. A little too much is better than too little. It does need to be consistent. Not some closing with no effort and some requiring it. That's bad juju. I modified my earlier post to include bump.

While I'm at it, if you aren't comfortable turning necks, it isn't hateful to pay a brass service to do it. Might save some time.

There are different ideas out there. I know of one good shooter that hates H4198 and jumps bullets rather than jamming. But, the baseline formula will get you started and is super straight forward.

 

[BOLTED]

Excellent info, thanks to all.

The gun comes with custom dies.

I'm guessing the 1:14 gave the original owner some grief, or maybe it just wasn't what the was looking for, because I got a VERY good deal for it.

I don't mind turning and forming brass, it's exciting to shoot something that you can't just buy off the shelf.

I reload 50BMG, so the little 30br seems "cute" but intimidating all at the same time.

I'm wondering why a guy would have a 1:14 built instead of 1:17?

OK. Next big question, If I wanted to buy a 1:17 later down the road, how do I order a new barrel? It's a savage, so I would like to put it on myself, but I have no clue how to order a barrel. I can get the wrench and headspace gauges, so In my perfect little world, I would get it in the mail, clean it, attach it, shoot it! That sounds too easy though.

Like before, any guru info would be much appreciated. Thanks!

 

[GSPV]

Excellent info, thanks to all.

The gun comes with custom dies.

I'm guessing the 1:14 gave the original owner some grief, or maybe it just wasn't what the was looking for, because I got a VERY good deal for it.

I don't mind turning and forming brass, it's exciting to shoot something that you can't just buy off the shelf.

I reload 50BMG, so the little 30br seems "cute" but intimidating all at the same time.

I'm wondering why a guy would have a 1:14 built instead of 1:17?

OK. Next big question, If I wanted to buy a 1:17 later down the road, how do I order a new barrel? It's a savage, so I would like to put it on myself, but I have no clue how to order a barrel. I can get the wrench and headspace gauges, so In my perfect little world, I would get it in the mail, clean it, attach it, shoot it! That sounds too easy though.

Like before, any guru info would be much appreciated. Thanks!

I don't know why anyone would build a 1:14 30 BR. Might have been on purpose, might have been a mistake.

Your custom FL die will still need to be carefully adjusted for shoulder bump. Hopefully, the die is a good enough fit for the chamber that when you have the right bump, you also are getting enough sizing at the base of the case. I'm a nit-picker for that. Life is too short to hunt over an ugly dog or fight with your rifle when you need to be concentrating on the wind

Assuming that the FL die is a bushing die, you'll need to verify that your bushing provides 4-5 thou of neck tension. At least with H4198.

Is your Savage in a BR stock? You might want to think about getting one along with the new barrel when the time comes. I'd then get a real HV profile finished to 22-23" and play with weight here and there so that it balances around the front of the action to 1" out in front.

If you ever plan to shoot a match with it or sell it to someone that does, I'd try to make it weigh about 13.5 lbs with the turret caps and/or lens covers in place. That way, you'd be sure to make VFS weight.

 

[GSPV]

In your other thread, you mention a 125-135 Berger bullets. There is none such listed on their web site.

If you do try bullets that heavy, do NOT use them with my recommendations for the 112-118 gr 0.925/1.00 jacket bullets that I make above. You can get over-pressure. Talk to guys they shoot bullets like thst in Hunter Benchrest for good recommendations.

Berger makes a nice 115 gr bullet that will fit with my recs very nicely.

Also in the other thread, someone mentioned hunting with it. I'd suggest the Speer 125 gr TNT as a more violently expanding option or the Nosler 125 gr Ballistic Tip as a bit more controlled option. I shoot these in a 30 Major AR-15 at about 2600 FPS, so I don't have a great rec for them other than to use the basic recipe, but start substantially low on the powder. Also, use less jam as you want a substantial margin of error on being able to extract a loaded round without the bullet staying behind.

That 125 TNT really does a number on varmints. I'm jonesing to double lung a deer with that load.

 

[BOLTED]

Rifle has a Savage F class benchrest stock, and the barrel is HV contour. 1'' at muzzle on a 26'' barrel sounds a bit heavy out front. Muzzle brake holes drilled in barrel may help a little, but probably not much. Unless I can learn to shoot by just sighting down the barrel, I doubt I could make weight.

Thanks for the hunting recs, I have about 10 months to get dialed in for that. Will practice on rabbits, varmints, and paper till then.

Shoulder bump and bushing size is good info

TWO MORE DAYS.... hard to beat the excitement of a new gun on the way.

First time on a forum, don't know why I waited this long. Thanks again.

 

[GSPV]

That is not the Heavy Varmint that I'm talking about.

The Heavy Varmint here http://www.rifle-barrels.net/barrel.html is what I'm talking about. When someone on here uses "HV" without a modifier, they are usually talking about the contour that I'm talking about...the NBRSA/IBS Heavy Varmint definition.

But, as long as you aren't going to compete or sell to someone that wants to, weight isn't really an issue. Balance always is.

When you get the next barrel, I'd work with someone to get the rifle balanced for proper tracking. Barrel profile will be a big part of that.

 

[BOLTED]

Gotcha. I will take your advice on that, thank you.

 

[P1ZombieKiller]

Gotcha. I will take your advice on that, thank you.

You are getting your money's worth in just this post. GREAT advice so far. This place has so much 30br stuff on it, you will love it. However you have a completely different animal of a 30br. I am very interested in your progress in this particular rifle (because it is so much different than other 30br's), so please make sure you post your results. Oh yeah... and some pics won't hurt either.

 

[BOLTED]

Yes, I knew this was going to be a challenge when I made the purchase. No one else was really talking about the 1:14 for 30br. I got great advise, and I have a few ideas of my own to try.

I will definitely post some progress and pics.

Finding flat base 30cal bullets north of 130 is tough, especially BR quality. I have a few other weights I'm going to try but....

Has anyone ever shaved down the base of a bullet to adjust/modify profile or weight?

I'm almost afraid to ask that on this site. It sounds like it belongs on a Bubba's Backyard Buckets of Bullets forum. Jacket, balance, exposed lead base etc....could be more trouble than it's worth. I'm thinking outside the box, across the parking lot, down the alley and around the corner on this one.

 

[dale metzger]

I have been shooting a 1:15 twist .30 BR with good results, using 112 & 118 bullets built on .925 jackets. Have been using similar powder charges of H4198 that I use in 1:17 or 1:18 twist barrels.
Can not really discern any difference on the targets.
Hope this helps you.
Dale

 

[BOLTED]

Thanks Dale. That makes me feel better.

You say "built on .925 jackets", are they custom, or is there a manufacturer you can turn me on to? If you don't want to give up your source, I understand.

Thanks,
Dave

 

[P1ZombieKiller]

Arvin,

One of the top bullet makers is right here on your thread. RGRobinette is his name. BIB bullets is his game.

To answer your question on "made on .925 jackets". Here are a couple of pics.
The first pic is a picture of a "jacket" and a "core". The core is not cut so it's still has to go through a second process to make it square and the exact right size, but you get the idea.

"made on .925 jackets" means the jacket is .925" before pointing (I think I am explaining this right).
The 2nd pick give you 2 different examples. It shows you the difference between .925 and 1.000 jackets as well as 7 ogive versus 10 ogive bullets. Hope this helps.

 

[GSPV]

Other things equal, a 0.925 bullet is shorter than a 1.00 bullet. Other things equal, a 10 ogive bullet is shorter than a 7 ogive.

By "shorter", I mean the length of the bore-diameter part of the bullet.

I like Randy's bullets a lot. I highly recommend them. Randy usually has a waiting list, though. If you need something right away, I suggest ordering the Berger 115 gr. It ain't a BIB, but it is semi-custom at the very least.

 

[GSPV]

While I'm thinking about it, that 125 gr Speer TNT that I recommended as a varmint bullet wouldn't be too bad, either. Not as good as the Berger. Certainly not in the class with any custom bullet. But, not shoddy at all.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/2149663126/speer-tnt-varmint-bullets-30-caliber-308-diameter-125-grain-jacketed-hollow-point?cm_vc=ProductFinding

While I'm at it, here is the link for the Berger.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/1076357110/berger-target-bullets-30-caliber-308-diameter-115-grain-hollow-point-flat-base?cm_vc=ProductFinding

I'm not endorsing Midway. Just a quick illustration.

 

[dale metzger]

Dave,
My bullet choice is from Ronnie Cheek in Abilene, Texas.
Really nice man to deal with.
Dale

 

[RGRobinett]

The 30 BR is, or at least was, very popular with folks that shoot cast bullets. Bullet weights are significantly heavier, typically 180 grains or more, than the 112-125's that show up at VFS matches. The heavy bullets require a faster twist to stabilize and 1 in 14" is fairly common. The barrels also have longer freebore and/or much smaller throat angle that the typical 0 freebore/1 45' throat that's used for jacketed bullets. One reamer I'm familiar with has only a half degree throat that lets the bullet go well into the rifling.

You'll find out quickly if this is the case with your barrel as reaching the rifling even to just barely touch the lands with something like the Berger 115 or the Speer 125 will leave very little if any bullet in the neck. FWIW I have shot the Speer 125 and the Berger 115 for fireforming in my 1:17" barrels and the Speer's always shot better.

There is at least some info on this at the cast boolits forum (their spelling, not mine) and there are a couple of posts here about it. I will say that a 30 BR cartridge with a 180 grain bullet in it looks very "different".

Great info, Dave - "wish I'd have though of it!" I always forget that angle. RG