308 win palma cases vs 308 win cases

[Samlisi1]

My ? is, has anyone done any testing on whether you get better performance buy using 308 Lapua Palma cases with small primers vs the 308 win cases with Large primers.

I am interested in getting your imput. I have been shooting some club f -class tr with the Palma case. I'm not sure if I should try the other.

Thanks,

Sam

 

[Fordnutter]

A slight improvement... the Palma brass seems to take more pressure before case head expansion occurs & the ES generally are lower. Our trials in an FTR & varmint rifle have convinced me it's worth the extra costs, I'm even using it for my 7mm08 Hunting rifle & are getting far better consistency than the normal large primer pocket stuff.

 

[holstil]

I think I read somewhere that the small primer 308 cases have some issues lighting the powder in colder temps. If I remember it's not a big to competitors cause they shoot in the summer only.
Maybe I'm misinformed. There might be something on German's site about it.

Jim

 

[clowdis]

Side by side comparisons here have shown no increase in score with the small primer brass. The biggest reason for it's introduction (according to Lapua) was the better consistency of small primers vs. large primers. We didn't have any primer failures with the small primers.

 

[Laurie]

I've run several side by side tests now and results vary. I've not used Varget and 155s as I'll accept that if the US Palma Team says it gives better results on balance that will be so.

So far as the most popular UK load combination for Target Rifle is concerned, 155gn Scenar and a hefty load of Viht N140 well above the reloading manual maximum, it gave me markedly poorer results than standard Lapua large primer brass - larger ES spreads and groups. With my favourite 155gn powder, N150 the case does does what it claims - significantly reduced ES figures at the expense of 25-30 fps MV.

Heavy (185gn and up) bullets and N550 don't work out well in my tests with the Palma brass, but that's what just what many GB F/TR shooters are now using these cases for, and claim they can run much hotter loads before pressure problems appear. My impression is that pressures and MVs plateau at a particular charge weight in some but not all combinations and you won't get any more out of the cartridge with heavier loads if that's the case. I have found though I can use heavier charges and get get higher MVs out of the 210gn Berger BT L-R over N550 than with large primer brass in a rifle that isn't throated optimally for the bullet length, and some F/TR shooters here are claiming impressive MVs with the 210gn VLD and this powder in these cases. I've just started trying Re17 and IMR-4007SSC in the the two cases using three-round batches to get a feel for pressures and MVs before looking to refine loads. The small primer results aren't as good as the large primer with Re17 so far.

I deliberately carried out some early tests in late winter to see how they perform at lower temperatures, 30s and low 40s as we shoot all year round in our climate, and will rerun some like the 155gn / N140 combination in high summer (high 60s, 70s, occasionally 80s) to see if that changes anything.

The results will be written up in the free online magazine http://www.targetshooter.co.uk in due course towards the end of the year.

I've got to say I'm not wildly impressed so far, although they do work well with some powders. I think it makes for a more finicky cartridge and one of the beauties of the .308W is its marvellous tolerance of any reasonably decent combination. So far, I haven't found a small primer load that gives good enough results to tempt me to switch to these cases with the exception of 155s and N150, but I use that for short-range matches and standard large primer brass (Norma and Lapua) perform so well that there's no reason to pay nearly twice as much per case to load this ammunition. At some point - if I don't find the 'silver bullet combination' - I'll try reaming out the flash-holes in the oldest cases. This was a common practice in the days of Remington UBBR .308W brass by those who used it in its original form and found problems with it in some conditions and temperatures.


Laurie,
York, England

 

[NateG]

I just recently put together a proper Palma gun, and I'm using the small-primer Lapua stuff for two reasons: I had some (won it at Perry last year) and everything else I shoot competitively uses small primers (.223, 6RAT, 6BRX) so I've already got a well-stocked variety of primers to try.

It worked quite well with 8208 and a Tula 223 primer, though I have no point of comparison with the LR primer brass. I'll continue to pay the premium for the small primer brass to avoid having to stock up on LR primers. I may revisit that decision at some point if I start shooting another cartridge with a LR primer pocket.

 

[KevinThomas]

This has already been touched upon by several members here, but I'll give it the factory seal of approval: we do advise against using the Palma brass for hunting applications, due to the fact that this frequently involves slower burning powders and colder ambient temperatures. There were problems with ignition in the earlier 308 UBBR Remington cases in certain applications, and we're well aware of that history. Stick with the standard 308 case and large primer for hunting applications, and save the Palma brass for those warm sunny match days.